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A .380 ACP vs. a 9mm

5K views 65 replies 20 participants last post by  Cucamonga kid 
#1 ·
If you guys would look at my spate of daily CCW pistols, you would see a rather smooth transition--except for one gap. I do not now or at any time have owned a 9mm pistol. I never saw the need or the utility.

My carry pistols (even the .45 ACP) have primarily 3-inch barrels. In seeing booth the .380 ACP and others using a 9mm, I've noticed a lot of smoke and flame upon ignition. Obviously this is caused by unburned powder being ejected from the muzzle, and if so, it did nothing to the speed of the bullet.

To that, there really doesn't seem to be much difference between a .355 bullet used in a .380 ACP and the 9mm--other the thickness of the gilding jacket.

Finally, I use my personal P238 for a defensive tool. In that regard, any round dispatched will usually hit the aggressor between three and seven feet.

Now, in a recent gun magazine I saw the new 911 pistol, and in reading the article I saw it was a 9mm offering. The first thing the author wrote about in firing the pistol was that you had to grip it firmly or it would ratchet itself from your hand. He added that while standing and using both hands the little gun finally settled down.

This kind of baffled me. If the pistol cannot be controlled and might fail to pull off a directed second shot, is the offering a real a benefit?

Finally, I'd like to hear from the guys who bought a defensive 9mm and found it a real addition to their safety. Thank you.
 
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#2 ·
I have owned and carried a Springfield Armory XD9 SubCompact since just after they first came out. I carry that almost exclusively and it just feels right and makes me a better shooter IMO! My wife loves to shoot it also. My alternate gun and sometimes back up gun is a Springfield Armory XDs in 45 ACP! I like it almost as much as the XD9 SC! I carry it very seldom but trust it as much as the 9mm. I like UXP SC because with the 9mm, I carry 13 rds in the gun and a 16 round extended mag in my left front pocket. I could add another to make it 46 rounds on me and if things change for the worse socially, I may do so.

I owned a Kimber but never carried it because it's not trustworthy IMO!

Just my experience......YMMV!
 
#3 ·
@OLE442, thanks for the response.

I wanted some feedback on these 9mm pistols because technology changes with the weather. Since I never owned a 9mm pistol and they are appearing in the gun magazines again, I wondered if this "new breed" was a worth a look and a possible purchase.
 
#4 · (Edited)
The 911 doesn't have much grip to hold and is relatively light for a 9mm handgun. So yes, it will require a firm grip. Any of the sub 10oz .380s also require a firm grip.

A carry gun should be practiced with in various positions and holds, including wet hands.

Short barrels on subcompact handguns expel powder not yet burned. This applies to all calibers.

Caliber debates are stupid. More direct to your point, I would not consider replacing a P238 .380 with a 911 9mm unless there is some other consideration like keeping with the same caliber across different guns you owned.

I carry a .380 LCP in my pocket and a Glock 19 9mm in my truck glovebox and use it as a nightstand gun when traveling. The Glock is a superior firearm in all respects other than it won't fit in my front pocket.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Obviously this is caused by unburned powder being ejected from the muzzle, and if so, it did nothing to the speed of the bullet.
...
The first thing the author wrote about in firing the pistol was that you had to grip it firmly or it would ratchet itself from your hand.
...
Finally, I'd like to hear from the guys who bought a defensive 9mm and found it a real addition to their safety. Thank you.
Well that's a whole lotta questions, mate. I'll give you my opinion on a couple.

1. Short barrels or light projectiles don't necessarily allow for complete burning of all the powder. Since the mushrooming popularity of concealable handguns some manufacturers are making ammo specifically for shorter barrels. I think Hornady's Critical Defense addresses this.

2. Call me a dinosaur if you will, but I think the majority of modern magazine writers are journalism majors who would write for any genre of magazine that hired them. I carry all the calibers that you mentioned (although usually not at the same time), and think that 9mm is the Goldilocks caliber. But if you can't hold onto a gun and it "ratchets out of your hand," then maybe you need to quit your job at Soldier of Fortune and start sending resumés to Women's Weekly and Pokèmon World.

3. Truthfully, no gun has ever added to my safety. Never shot it, drawn it, or brandished it for serious business. I carry the Kahr P380 weekdays. I used to think the HK P2000SK (9mm) was the best overall carry gun, but recently I've been carrying the Sig P365 (9mm) more and more. The common denominator of ALL those guns is a long, light trigger pull with no manual safety.
 
#7 ·
The only real argument for a 9mm vs a .380 would be for winter carry in cold environments IMO. I think there MAY be a bit of an advantage defending yourself from an XL sized bad guy wearing a heavy jacket with the 9mm? Other than that at 5' away, bad guy wearing a shirt, I don't see where the 9mm is a major advantage. I guess I fall on the training and shot placement side of the fence. You're better off with a pistol you can hit well with that reliably goes bang.
 
#8 ·
Air gun Trigger Grey Gun barrel Everyday carry

I found what I feel is the perfect 9 mm CCW. Well perfect for me that is. I'm a diehard 1911 fan and shortly after purchasing the New Colt Defender 45 I discovered the same model pistol in 9 mm. I was amazed at how light the recoil was on the 9 compared to the 45. It's only slightly bigger than my Kimber Micro9 and about 8 oz heavier. It's called a lightweight defender having an alloy frame and stainless steel slide and weighs about 24 ounces compared to the 16 of the Micro. The extra weight of the Defender along with the slightly larger grip makes it a dream to shoot; a lot easier than the Micro.

It has permanently replaced the Micro9 as my EDC in the AIWB.
The Micro has been demoted to pocket carry only.

Everyday carry Gadget Wood Gun barrel Trigger
 
#9 ·
Thank you, guys, you filled in the gaps.

BTW, Cucamonga kid, I also carry one or two automatic knives myself in going to the mall cafe' for several years. I did make a change.

I've found that "tough guys" usually try to grab you first. So I now carry a left-handed switchblade in my left pocket, and a right-handed switchblade in my right pocket.

Now, I will admit I got into automatics in 1964 because I was a dumb teenager and switchblades were "cool." But as I grew I bought more and more knives that mirrored jackknives but had springs. I still rely on these tools, and it sure helps if one of your hands is clamped on something that is trying to fly apart!

Oh, and I think I have one or two automatics laying around here somewhere...

 
#10 · (Edited)
Chico, if I remember correctly you have a Kimber Ultra in 45 correct? Well just imagine the same size and weight pistol with half the recoil and one extra round and you'll know what shooting a 9 mm ultra is like.
I have wondered if you could get your hands on a 9 mm barrel and recoil assembly and of course 9 mm magazines could you convert a 45 into a 9 mm? 🤔

Anybody who owns both 9 and 45 Ultras want to give it a try?

Edit: I just found out that the 9 mm mag does fit into the 45 frame. When I get up a little more energy I think I will try swapping the barrels and recoil springs.
It would be sweet to be able to convert your 45 into 9 mm for just a couple of hundred bucks.
 
#11 ·
Yes, I have a Kimber--didn't know it was called an 'Ultra,' however. To me it has always been a "3 inch Kimber."

I never really got the thrills about a 9mm. I do have a .22LR for my Kimber, and that's just fun, even at a Barbeque.

If you have had a long lay-off between target practice (like, for example, snow in Wisconsin) having a .22LR to sharpen your skills is good idea.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Yes, I have a Kimber--didn't know it was called an 'Ultra,' however. To me it has always been a "3 inch Kimber."

I never really got the thrills about a 9mm.
3" 1911- officers model, ultra compact or just plain ultra. Or in the case of Colt: "Defender"

I guarantee you'd get a thrill out of shooting a real 3 inch all metal 1911 9 mm though. I did! At first I thought it was actually sacrilegious to own a 9 mm 1911 but I'm sold.
Half the recoil of a Micro9 and twice the horsepower of a 380. What's not to like?
Next time you find yourself up in Montana send me a PM and I'll let you try it out at the range.
 
#12 ·
I’m the opposite, I’ve never owned a .380. We all have different opinions on what we like to carry and what’s best. I never had issues with shooting or carrying sub-compact 9mms. I like the fact that 9mm is cheaper than .380. My 2 main carry guns are my Ultra TLE II 45 and Sig P938.
 
#14 ·
Now, in a recent gun magazine I saw the new 911 pistol, and in reading the article I saw it was a 9mm offering. The first thing the author wrote about in firing the pistol was that you had to grip it firmly or it would ratchet itself from your hand. He added that while standing and using both hands the little gun finally settled down.

This kind of baffled me. If the pistol cannot be controlled and might fail to pull off a directed second shot, is the offering a real a benefit?
That makes no sense to me either. I believe I'd chalk it up to gun rag writer blather myself. He seriously was having trouble controlling a 9mm???

As for 9mm, I have been slow to warm up to it but now 2 of the 4 handguns I own that are actually seriously used for carry are chambered in it.

Chico, they shoot sweet for sure. I can deliver multiple rapid fire shots to center mass at typical defensive ranges with ease, even with smallish guns aimed at CCW use. On the other hand my Pro Carry 4" .45 takes more skill to shoot that fast as accurately despite the larger frame and heavier weight. On the other hand the first hit with a .45 definitely means something too. Like everything else, it's all about trade offs and compromises.

I'll admit I am armed with a .380 about as much as anything, especially around the house. I consider the .380 entirely adequate for a purely defensive "get away from me" type of role. The 9mms are a step above that but not as much as fanboys would have you think. JMO.

Pretty sure you need one "just because". :D
 
#17 ·
That makes no sense to me either. I believe I'd chalk it up to gun rag writer blather myself. He seriously was having trouble controlling a 9mm???
It's not that it's simply a 9mm, but rather the platform that's launching it. It's a 15oz gun which is on the low end for 9mm guns, without much grip to hold.

The Springfield 911 9mm is basically a Sig P238 (.380) that shoots 9mm. Both guns are the same height at 3.9in, 15.2oz and 15.3oz.

What 'makes sense' is for someone like Tourist who owns a P238 to ask why he would want something like the 911 9mm that will be more difficult to control than his P238 unless there's a significant payoff with caliber performance for self defense. It's good question. The correct answer is forget about it, IMO.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Adapt to this century or be left behind!

Go big or go home!

Wilson Combat CQB Compact 9mm!

Smooth, accurate, low/no recoil pretty to boot.

For the budget minded, $600 used 9mm Stainless Ultra with Crimson Trace grips added by me.

Smooth, accurate, low/no recoil, also good looking.
 

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#18 ·
Adapt to this century or be left behind!

Go big or go home!

Wilson Combat CQB Compact 9mm!

Smooth, accurate, low/no recoil pretty to boot.

For the budget minded, $600 used 9mm Stainless Ultra with Crimson Trace grips added by me.

Smooth, accurate, low/no recoil, also goof looking.
I'm budget minded, and thanks again for your help in its purchase. I've had it for months now and haven't shot it yet, now I'm curious as to how it will shoot. Bought used for $600 and added the one piece mag well and grips.
 

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#23 ·
My little Kimber just seems a tad heavy about mid-afternoon. I just need a concealable pistol for the mall, and then only to get my wife out an exit if everything goes sideways.

For that, I like the SIG P238 and a spare magazine. It's the pistol I hope I never have to use.

Now, my little Kimber is the pistol I'll brandish when I'm in over my head. Then again, when I imagine that scenario I wind up not going to those places!
 
#25 ·
Or were you just trolling to get justification in carrying a .380? Again...:confused:
No, not a bit, it's just that I'm almost 70 years old.

Now, if I was the same loud-mouth twenty year old skirt-catcher I was (Oh, fire was invented that year, and we were all excited because we could now see the dirt that was invented the year before) in that era, I would have bored you with paragraphs of minutia to support my claims.

But things like guns, knives, jeans and motorcycles are all personal possessions, and what's right for some is wrong for many.

My choice of the .380 ACP is just a matter of being careful as an older man. Most of the "danger" I now face is at the mall. And not only is that confrontation usually within arms' reach, but a shot that perforates might hit someone else.

Now, when I was about 28, there was a local gunshop called "Castle Rock Supply." One owner was planning on being a cop, and the other guy thought he was already a mercenary.

They would load their 1911 magazines with a hardball round, then a hollowpoint round, then another hardball round and so on.

Frankly I'm glad Massad Ayoob wrote articles on acting like an adult.
 
#27 ·
PPK? Kewl... My PPK/S has been in the family for about 45 years. I haven't shot it much--a little as a kid, and only a couple magazines in recent years. I kept it because it's kinda neat, and it's almost a James Bond gun. Just last week my wife was asking me about .380s, thinking she might want to start carrying one. So last weekend I brought out a selection that she might like.

I wanted to burn a little ammo through the little gun, so I loaded up, and POP! POP! POP! POP! POP! POP! POP! POP!

What was THAT? I thought I was trippin', so I had to pull out another .380 to be sure. My little Colt with a recoil operated action was like shooting squibs by comparison.

The Walther is certainly a beautiful gun, and I appreciate the hammer-dropping DA/SA action. But the straight blowback makes shooting the gun a little less tame than one might expect from a .380.

So my PPK/S is back in the safe, and will only come out for special occasions.
 
#28 ·
If you take the benefits of the .380 to the extreme you could argue for a .22 but putting more power into a threat is desirable. If you are noticeably more accurate with .380 then might be better option but I never found 9mm to be too jumpy even in my small p938. Of course the 45acp was invented because the 9mm wasn’t great at killing the enemy.
 
#29 ·
If you take the benefits of the .380 to the extreme you could argue for a .22 but putting more power into a threat is desirable.
Actually my desire for a defensive handgun is to grab my wife and find an exit without firing a single shot!

When I first started to read firearms magazines I saw where the older authors put a lot of attention on knowing your surroundings and getting out while the getting was good. As a younger man I found it odd that an armed CCW holder with lots of training would run rather than dig his heels in.

Now I'm the older guy. I hope my defensive pistol is never used, and I can find that big, red, beautiful "exit sign" while I turn tail!
 
#30 ·
The only 9MM I own is a West German Army surplus Walther P-1, as part of my milsurp collection.
For years I pocket carried either a 357 magnum snubby or a Charter Arms 44 Special.
But, given that we live in a very low violent crime area, I have “down graded “ to a Ruger LCP2, 380 Auto. Light, flat, small, it rides perfectly in my front jean pocket. I keep a spare magazine in a nylon knife pouch on my belt.

I’m perfectly comfortable with it, going into town.
 
#31 ·
I'm perfectly comfortable with it, going into town.
@RPD, I wish I could say that, but experience and gray hair tells me that predator wolves have not diminished because us rabbits have better fangs now.

BTW, I do not know if I showed these off, but I bought two automatic Buck 112s, my favorite daily folder. I prefer the 112 since it has a finger choil on the front bolster so your hand doesn't slip onto the blade.

I park a 112 in front of my CCW holster, and I can actually draw it, hit the activation button and close distance before some idiot who has seen way too many adventure movies realizes his poop is in the red.

For the other 99.9% of my needs, I find these 112s are just great pocketknives for any job.
 
#32 ·
My first handgun, purchased about 30 years ago, was a 380 Government Colt and it was my only handgun until a few years ago. I've since started picked up shooting as a bit of a hobby and bought the guns in my signature.

Long story short, I think recoil/kick has a lot to do with the design of the pistol - particularly barrel to frame placement and grip angle. The Ultra Carry II in 45 has less recoil/kick than the P229 in 40. So if I was worried about recoil/kick, I'd take a serious look at the Ultra Carry II in 9mm.

Before buying the 380 so many years ago, I did a little research (not much information available back then) and thought since the bullet size was the same (shorter casing/less powder), there probably wasn't that much difference between the two at close range. Once I started looking at buying another handgun, I researched ballistics info and found the following site showing ballistic data with pictures. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

I used that site to pick my carry ammo: Winchester 230gr Ranger T-Series for the 45; Remington 180gr Ultimate Defense for the 40; and Hornady 90gr FTX Critical Defense for the 380. I already had taken snippets of a number of the ballistic gell photos and properly scaled them for comparison. So, I did a quick overlay of what I think is "the best" 9mm and 380 for you to get an idea of the penetration and wound channel difference between the two.


I think there is a considerable difference and when I get to the point I think the 40 or 45 is a little much for me, I'll get an Ultra Carry II in 9mm. That said, there are only a couple months of the year here in the south that folks wear heavy coats. So, the majority of time I have no worries about dropping the little 380 in my back pocket for quick trips in the safer areas.

Hope this helps in some way. EKG
 
#33 ·
EKG: Thanks for that informative post. Once again it shows the undeniable advantage of the 9mm over the .380....not that many of us were in denial of the fact.

As the guns now are about the same size/weight, it always amuses me why anyone would choose the lesser caliber for self defense when a much better alternative is readily available in the same package.

A .380 is certainly better than nothing, but not "better" than a 9mm for the same purpose. Just sayin'......
 
#34 · (Edited)
The only advantage between, let's say a Micro 380 and a Micro 9, is that the 380 is much easier to cycle for anyone with strength issues.
Size matters; bigger is better. However don't carry an automatic pistol that you cannot cycle quickly. As an example the Solo is a cute, concealable and lightweight 9 mm but even my 40-year-old son could barely cycle the slide to clear a jamb or load a round.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I have a take on this. First, I am 71, and have been shooting everything for 60 years. In handguns, I have owned .22s, .38spls, .357 mag, 9mm (including my current favorite, the micro-9), a .44 mag (smith 29), a 44mag (ruger Redhawk), and a 454 casull, also a Ruger.

I enjoyed shooting each and every one. 100 rounds a day at the range for any of them was common.

So, for the micro-9, I do not understand the recoil issue. I am old. I am not huge (5'10" 200 lbs). I have shot my micro-9 with one hand (either right or left), and with both. For accuracy, I go with the double-hand hold. But I have never had a single issue with holding the gun so loosely that it would either (a) misfire due to slide not traveling to the stop or (b) ratchet out of my hand.

I fired about 250 rounds in a couple of hours one day last week. Hand did not fall off. Do not have gunsight/hammer marks on my face, etc.

I could see how a frail female might have a problem. But my wife, 5'3", 120 lbs, 71 years old, can fire my micro-9 with no problems.

For several years my EDC was my Smith 637. Good gun, compact, easy to fire, only negative is the 1.5" barrel. But I knew it would go "bang" when the trigger was pulled. After about 1,000 rounds through my micro-9, the only failures I have had (maybe 3-4) were with the infamous steel case rounds we were talking about last week, where the groove in the case head was partially filled in by whatever crap WW used to coat the casings to prevent rust. ALL of those were FTE where the extractor would simply not grab that groove. Normal ammo has been 100% reliable no matter what the bullet type and weight. It is now my EDC. It is a bit heaver than the smith, but it carries 8 rounds rather than 5. It is a very quick reload as opposed to a revolver (which can be fairly quick but nothing like a quick magazine eject and insert).

To me, the micro-9 is the perfect carry firearm. I am a C-1 fan, and it is always cocked and locked whether it is in a holster, in my pants pocket or in my jacket pocket. Nice compact frame with a significant punch. And (to me) anything but excessive recoil. I consider it fun to shoot myself.

BTW last time I was out, we did a comparison shooting water jugs. Friend had one of those REALLY big recoil air weights in .357. Yes, it IS a bit painful although I put 10 rounds through it. The thing we noticed was that my 9mm was producing a bigger impact on the water jugs, judged by how far the water expanded, etc. I can only assume that a .357 through a 1.5" barrel is not burning much of the powder where it does the most good. Out of curiosity, I took that gun out back at 10pm and lit off one round. 2 minutes later, I could see to walk back up to his back porch. This thing produced the classic "watermelon" that extended at least 3-4' beyond the muzzle. The micro-9 has twice the barrel, which is apparently just enough to shoot as hard as a 357 in a j-frame. BTW I did have my Smith 27 with me, and it DEFINITELY hits harder than my 9mm. 6" barrel makes a difference. And, of course, it was quite pleasant to shoot (heavy .357) compared to that damned airweight. Owner of that gun keeps it loaded with .38spl rounds. :) Says a lot. Looks impressive but he was too big a wuss to carry real .357 ammo in it. I will never let him live that down.

So, from that, these little guns really do pack a wallop. And, to me, are easy to control and convenient to carry (I ONLY use the 7 round mag and always carry in the 7+1 configuration.)

I am convinced that this "limp wristed" stuff is more about a lack of training than an actual inability to properly fire the gun. I hate people that shake my hand with a limp grip that feels like a dead fish. I would assume THAT is the kind of person that really has trouble gripping/firing the micro 9mm type guns.

In short, I would not make the decision between .380 and 9mm purely based on recoil. The army gave up on the .45 because too many folks did not like the recoil. I've never considered a .45 to be a vicious gun to shoot. Lot of fun, actually, and my Smith 645 has had a ton of ammo fired through it. But for EDC, for me, not workable. Too big and too heavy. THAT is what drives my choice, which works best in the application. Advantage for the .380 is a smaller gun. If that is important, that is the gun to carry. If either works size-wise, I'd go for the more potent 9mm. These small guns don't hold a bunch of rounds, so the rounds that do the most damage have a significant advantage...

Just my $.02 of course.
 
#36 ·
In short, I would not make the decision between .380 and 9mm purely based on recoil.
Well, Bob, that's why I started this debate--and I hope it's fun for all.

I go the other way. Here's an analogy, was Crocodile Dundee really safer with that big pigsticker? Of course not. He was outnumbered and would have had to place himself between the girl and the thugs. The knife meant nothing, and I'm a knife guy.

Some folks have asserted that practice is the golden rule for defensive weapons, and I agree with that opinion. In my neighborhood .380 ACP ammunition is very cheap, and you can buy it in 250 round packs in any sporting goods store.

Then there's the crux. Would any attacker actually say, "Gee, I'm glad that guy only shot me through the heart with a .380, I thought I was in big trouble for a moment..."

Then there's those nasty shooting statistics. Most exchanges use Mouse Guns, like the .22LR and the .25 ACP. Even those guns kill about 45% of the time.

So, because of cheap ammunition (and cheap practice), limited recoil and easier second shots, I'd vote for the .380 ACP. And that's what I carry.
 
#37 ·
The critical point is to choose a gun you will actually carry 100% of the time that you are "out". The smith .500 won't help you a bit if it is home locked up because you don't want to lug 5+ pounds of gun and ammo around.

The micro-9 or smith 637 would not be my first choice for actual target-shooting or busting water bottles. My choice would likely be my Beretta 92. But for carrying, it is really no contest. I would be willing to carry a .380, and I do like the slightly smaller size and weight. But it is ANOTHER caliber to have to deal with, and since the micro-9 is not that much bigger or heavier, and since it shoots a caliber that is common to other guns I shoot, that is a plus.

Only comment is I would NOT use that 200 round/box ammo for EDC. There are lots of good rounds that will actually expand and do real damage, and you can be sure they will each fire when you need 'em to do so. For range shooting, I shoot the cheapest ammo I can find. But for EDC, it is about $25 per 20 for me. :)
 
#38 · (Edited)
First let me say that just about any caliber round of any type will do the job if placed appropriately. The following is my opinion based on my research and reasoning - certainly others’ opinions will vary.

I don’t have an issue carrying my 380 loaded with Hornady 90gr FTX ammo when it’s not heavy-coat weather (maybe 2 months around here). That’s ONLY because of the consistency of the ballistic testing showing the FTX round has pretty decent penetration and expansion while making a decent wound channel. The Sig 90gr V-Crown is what I’d consider the 2nd best 380 round and if not for the FTX that would be my 380 carry ammo. In fact, if not for these two rounds, I wouldn’t carry the 380 as a primary weapon at any time — unless it was the only caliber I was physically able to place a second shot with.

When looking at other caliber ballistic results, I think there are only 3 really good (non-plus) 9mm rounds that I would feel comfortable with as my primary carry round. If not for those three 9mm rounds, I wouldn’t want to carry a 9mm as my primary weapon either. However, there are a number of 40 and 45 caliber rounds that fair extremely well in the ballistic testing and I wouldn’t think twice about carrying any of those rounds.

I know the topic is 380 vs 9mm, but for what it’s worth, these are my picks based on a combination of expansion, penetration, size of wound channel and the consistency of all those things (based on the 5-shot results). If you check out the site for visuals, keep in mind that you have to scale the pictures when comparing the wound channels. Also, just because the expansion of one bullet over the other is greater doesn't necessarily mean it will produce the greater permanent wound channel (width and depth).

.380 ACP
Hornady 90gr FTX Critical Defense
Sig Sauer 90 gr V-Crown

9MM
Winchester 147 gr Ranger T-Series
Remington 147 gr Golden Saber
Federal 147 Grain HST

.40 S&W
Remington 180 gr Ultimate Defense
Remington 180 gr Golden Saber
Remington 180 gr Golden Saber Bonded
Winchester 165 gr Ranger Bonded
Winchester 180 gr Ranger Bonded
Federal 180 gr HST
Winchester 180 gr Ranger T-Series

.45 ACP
Winchester 230 gr Ranger T-Series
Winchester 230 gr Ranger T-Series +P
Federal 230 gr HST
Federal 230 gr HST +P
Remington 185 gr Golden Saber +P
Remington 230 gr Golden Saber
Magtech 230 gr Bonded
Speer 230 gr Gold Dot
 
#39 ·
@EKG, when you consider that most defensive rounds are fired at point-blank distance--maybe even just few feet--I believe any .355 bullet rattling out of a muzzle will hit with the same energy.

When I reloaded .380 and 9x19mm (which I seldom did, I hated reloading 'tiny' brass cases) I used the same .355 bullets in both cartridges.

I believe they were definitely close in velocity because I never reloaded cartridges to maximum speeds.
 
#40 ·
@EKG, when you consider that most defensive rounds are fired at point-blank distance--maybe even just few feet--I believe any .355 bullet rattling out of a muzzle will hit with the same energy.
With that flawed 'logic', a .38 S&W would "hit" with the same energy as a .357 Magnum.

If the .380 ACP was so effective for SD, wonder why all the European armies and police forces dumped it long ago in favor of the 9x19?

No matter how you try to justify carrying a .380 over all the other choices available, there is no denying basic physics......period. Velocity and energy DO matter! :cool:
 
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