When is it legal to defend yourself.. - Kimber Forum

Kimber


Go Back   Kimber Forum > Kimber Forum Discussions > Kimber Concealed Carry

Like Tree96Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-25-2014, 11:13 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Marshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cardinal Nation
Posts: 19,290
When is it legal to defend yourself..

After another shooting in Santa Barbara on Friday I thought to myself "if only someone had a permit to carry had been there to stop this guy".

My question is, if someone is going on a rampage and shooting anyone in sight, do we have the right to defend ourselves and others even though that person isn't pointing the weapon at me at that moment???

Maybe one of the LEO on the forum can clear this up....Thanks
Marshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 05-25-2014, 11:27 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Insta-Gator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 11,763
Depends on the state law.

In Georgia we have the right to defend ourselves and others from attack. These rights will be strengthened on July 1 when the latest new laws go into effect.
roketdoc likes this.
__________________
Insta-Gator aka .. Gary
(warning: prone to bouts of petulance)

It's not that I have something to hide, ... I have nothing I want you to see.

(remember your 4th Amendment right, people)
Insta-Gator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2014, 11:37 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Mike240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,704
Arizona
13-404. Justification; self-defense
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.
B. The threat or use of physical force against another is not justified:
1. In response to verbal provocation alone; or
2. To resist an arrest that the person knows or should know is being made by a peace officer or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful, unless the physical force used by the peace officer exceeds that allowed by law; or
3. If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, unless:
(a) The person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter; and
(b) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful physical force against the person.


13-405. Justification; use of deadly physical force
A. A person is justified in threatening or using deadly physical force against another:
1. If such person would be justified in threatening or using physical force against the other under section 13-404, and
2. When and to the degree a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly physical force.
B. A person has no duty to retreat before threatening or using deadly physical force pursuant to this section if the person is in a place where the person may legally be and is not engaged in an unlawful act.

13-406. Justification; defense of a third person
A person is justified in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force against another to protect a third person if, under the circumstances as a reasonable person would believe them to be, such person would be justified under section 13-404 or 13-405 in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force to protect himself against the unlawful physical force or deadly physical force a reasonable person would believe is threatening the third person he seeks to protect.
gwbiker and Marshall like this.
Mike240 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 05-25-2014, 11:38 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Marshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cardinal Nation
Posts: 19,290
Retreat.

In some states, human life is held more sacred than the ordinary categories where self-defense, including deadly force, may be justified if the victim of the crime can retreat or and fails to retreat to the wall. What this means is if there is a safe way to leave or flee the crime, the victim must do so until he “hits a wall” or barrier where he or she can no longer safely do so. It is only at “the wall” that the justification to use deadly force becomes valid.

This is why I wondered if I am not specifically the target but maybe a random target and I have the option to retreat would this be a justified cause for me to protect someone else from bodily harm??
Marshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2014, 11:51 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Insta-Gator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 11,763
Down here we have NO obligation to retreat.


Bottom line, if a person(s) threatens violence against me or another person, they my end the day with a cap in their ass, to use the vernacular. Conceal carry is very popular around here, so the perp will never know where the defender may come from.
Chuck66 likes this.
__________________
Insta-Gator aka .. Gary
(warning: prone to bouts of petulance)

It's not that I have something to hide, ... I have nothing I want you to see.

(remember your 4th Amendment right, people)
Insta-Gator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2014, 11:52 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Gmountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,178
OK in Florida. You can use deadly force to stop any forcible felony, including rape and treason.

I really doubt, though, that an armed citizen would have been very effective in the California shooting. You have a guy driving a car and shooting, and it is a very difficult situation.
Gmountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2014, 12:02 PM   #7
Super Moderator
 
Chuck43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 32,797
Illinois Law on the Use of Deadly Force

Illinois law allows a person to use deadly force ONLY under the following circumstances:

IN DEFENSE OF A PERSON

A person is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony. 720 ILCS 5/7-1

OR

IN DEFENSE OF A DWELLING

A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other’s unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:

(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent, riotous, or tumultuous manner, and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent an assault upon, or offer of personal violence to, him or another then in the dwelling, or

(2) He reasonably believes that such force is
necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling. 720 ILCS 5/7-2(a)(1) & (2)


OR

IN DEFENSE OF OTHER PROPERTY
A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with either real property (other than a dwelling) or personal property, lawfully in his possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his immediate family or household or of a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
720 ILCS 5/7-3

"Forcible felony" means treason, first degree murder, second degree murder, predatory criminal sexual assault of a child, aggravated criminal sexual assault, criminal sexual assault, robbery, burglary, residential burglary, aggravated arson, arson, aggravated kidnaping, kidnaping, aggravated battery resulting in great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual. 720 ILCS 5/2-8
__________________
WE DON'T SHOOT TO KILL, WE SHOOT TO SAVE A LIFE.
Chuck43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2014, 12:09 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Marshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cardinal Nation
Posts: 19,290
Originally Posted by Gmountain View Post
OK in Florida. You can use deadly force to stop any forcible felony, including rape and treason.

I really doubt, though, that an armed citizen would have been very effective in the California shooting. You have a guy driving a car and shooting, and it is a very difficult situation.
This guy shot 3 girls outside of a sorority house when he couldn't get inside.
If I'm walking or driving by I wouldn't have the stones "not" to help but wondered if then would I be in trouble since I wasn't involved from the start..?
I guess that would be a damned if you do damned if you don't moment but I would have to just face the music because I would have to help..
Marshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2014, 12:15 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Gmountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,178
Originally Posted by jms-stlou View Post
This guy shot 3 girls outside of a sorority house when he couldn't get inside.
If I'm walking or driving by I wouldn't have the stones "not" to help but wondered if then would I be in trouble since I wasn't involved from the start..?
I guess that would be a damned if you do damned if you don't moment but I would have to just face the music because I would have to help..
I don't think you would be in trouble anywhere,
Gmountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2014, 12:18 PM   #10
Super Moderator
 
Chuck43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 32,797
As much as I envy the guys that live in states where they only have to apply for a carry permit and if they have a clear background they are issued I feel that it should be mandatory for them to know the law that goes along with it. No offense intended towards Jeff or anyone else but having a carry permit and not knowing when or under what circumstances the gun can be used to defend a life is just wrong. As much as I dislike the mandatory classroom hours required to get a permit in Illinois it has it's upside you are taught exactly what the law says you can or can't do.
shin0bi1 and USPP-SFFO like this.
__________________
WE DON'T SHOOT TO KILL, WE SHOOT TO SAVE A LIFE.
Chuck43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Search tags for this page
is it a good choice to defend you're self in court ?
,

is it legal to defend yourself

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winchester Train/Defend W9MMT 147 gr. FMJ acelottski Kimber Solo Forum 9 03-19-2014 03:21 PM