Women's Self Defense Course or Finish With One To The Head - Kimber Forum

Kimber


Go Back   Kimber Forum > Kimber Forum Discussions > Kimber Concealed Carry

Like Tree22Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-15-2017, 09:08 PM   #1
Member
 
Muley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 34
Women's Self Defense Course or Finish With One To The Head

My wife is a good shot, not a fast shot, but an accurate one. She participated in our local Sheriff's self defense class which included shooting as well as simple tricks and techniques to fend off an attacker long enough to escape or get help.

Our Sheriff told the women to finish with one to the head and "make sure he's dead". So we practiced on a silhouette target with center mass shots and then to the brainpan.

I have always told her to shoot until the attacker is no longer among the living even if it means going in the house to get another box of bullets.

I'm very pleased and proud of our sheriff who shares these feelings and openly teaches them So many LEOs today would take the PC route and go against all common sense.
Oreste, Hawker800 and starnovi like this.
Muley is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 02-16-2017, 06:33 AM   #2
Super Moderator
 
Chuck43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 32,820
I'd question that advice, if your attacker is down and no longer a threat to anyone putting a bullet in his head is murder. I think you need to speak with your states attorney, I have a feeling your sheriff is giving out some bad advice.
__________________
WE DON'T SHOOT TO KILL, WE SHOOT TO SAVE A LIFE.

Last edited by Chuck43; 02-16-2017 at 07:47 AM.
Chuck43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 07:53 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
starnovi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,676
Sounds like you and your wife should attend a Georgia Gun Law Class. Gun Law Seminar | U.S. Law Shield US Law Shield offers excellent class for minimum price. Most ranges in the area also offer GA gun law classes. It's a good place to get questions answered by lawyers and law enforcement.

Once the threat is eliminated you should stop shooting. If the threat was retreating, you don't go running after him and shoot him in the back. Remember the police will be on scene, most likely you will be taken into custody, there is a lot going on and you are will need legal advice. You can also get that with US Law Shield, attorneys on call 24/7
Chuck43 likes this.
starnovi is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 02-16-2017, 06:02 PM   #4
Member
 
Muley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 34
I don't want to start a "legal" argument here, but I will try to make my case and let it go at that.

First of all, I'm not interested in worrying about legalities if some thug breaks into my house, molests my wife, attacks me, etc. In my world a person doing any of the above forfeits all their rights and then has only the privilege to live should I decide to exercise that option. I am not confident enough to shoot to wound, and I don't ever want the thug to have an opportunity to sue me or involve me in any legal hassles whatsover.

However , it would be very imprudent of me and downright stupid if I am involved in using deadly force and not covering my ass one way or the other.

Furthermore, the last thing on earth I'd want to see happen is that my wife wounds an attacker and he or she manages to get to her and harm or kill her because she was worried about legal BS.

Sorry if I bother someone or offend, but that's the way I see things.
2sharp2 likes this.
Muley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 06:04 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Shootinit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 4,002
1st shot aim might be a little high.
Muley likes this.
Shootinit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 07:11 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Elapid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: North Mississippi
Posts: 247
My wife's 380 has first three Hollow Point with the last four FMJ. three to stop and four to kill. Taught her to triple tap and assess the situation.
Elapid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 07:12 PM   #7
Super Moderator
 
Chuck43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 32,820
Nobody is offended, bothered or arguing with you. We were just questioning the advice you were given by your local sheriff.

Our Sheriff told the women to finish with one to the head and "make sure he's dead".

I'd seriously check that out with your states attorney's office, the sheriff doesn't prosecute people the state attorney does. There are different laws in different states but when it comes to shooting in self defense most are similar, you shoot until the threat is stopped. Yes, you may have to kill to stop the threat but if you have the time and presence of mind to put one to the head to "make sure he's dead" I'll guarantee you are going to be up to your butt in lawyers fees in both criminal and civil court.
__________________
WE DON'T SHOOT TO KILL, WE SHOOT TO SAVE A LIFE.
Chuck43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 07:25 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Mike240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,704
Originally Posted by Chuck43 View Post
I'd question that advice, if your attacker is down and no longer a threat to anyone putting a bullet in his head is murder. I think you need to speak with your states attorney, I have a feeling your sheriff is giving out some bad advice.
Correct. Coup d' ťtat is not a legally accepted premise. The application of deadly force is to stop the threat of deadly force but the intent is to end the threat, not necessarily kill. Death of your assailant may be a byproduct but not the intent.

Example: An acquaintance cop in a neighboring town shot a man twice in the chest who approached him wielding a knife with a Sig P220. The assailant stopped in this tracks though still standing and dropped the knife. With one hand on his wounds and the other in the air, he went to his knees and said, "I can't believe that you shot me". The suspect was then cuffed and medics called. He later died. Officer was correct and stopped the threat. If he walked up and shot him in the head after an obvious pause in the action and cessation of the threat, he could be indicted for murder.

Just because deadly force is initially authorized/justified, does not mean you get to whatever the hell you want regardless of time delay and execute the suspect.

I agree with training to build skill to shoot very quickly and put a mass of rounds on target and practice what we called failure drills, two to chest and two to head very rapidly. But to advise citizens to always finish with a head shot aka "John Wick" movie style in todays world of cameras everywhere, will get you in trouble.

I guess there are those locations of one rural Texas deputy said at a shooting school class when challenged as to why he did what he did on a target. He responded, "where I work, there will be not witnesses".

Some on KT have been in shootings. There is living with them. Then there is living with knowing you went too far and committed murder.
Chuck43 likes this.
__________________
Yea. Keep telling yourself that split times donít matter.
Mike240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2017, 07:27 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Mike240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,704
Originally Posted by Muley View Post
I don't want to start a "legal" argument here, but I will try to make my case and let it go at that.

First of all, I'm not interested in worrying about legalities if some thug breaks into my house, molests my wife, attacks me, etc. In my world a person doing any of the above forfeits all their rights and then has only the privilege to live should I decide to exercise that option. I am not confident enough to shoot to wound, and I don't ever want the thug to have an opportunity to sue me or involve me in any legal hassles whatsover.

However , it would be very imprudent of me and downright stupid if I am involved in using deadly force and not covering my ass one way or the other.

Furthermore, the last thing on earth I'd want to see happen is that my wife wounds an attacker and he or she manages to get to her and harm or kill her because she was worried about legal BS.

Sorry if I bother someone or offend, but that's the way I see things.
A good investigation, ballistics examiner, scene reconstructionist and blood splatter expert will determine if your final shots were an execution or not. Its not tough.

We were not trained to shoot to wound either but to shoot center mass due to it is the largest part of the body and last portion to move or at least move the slowest. And to take the center of mass of whatever is exposed if the target is attempting to use cover...including the head.
Chuck43 likes this.
__________________
Yea. Keep telling yourself that split times donít matter.

Last edited by Mike240; 02-16-2017 at 08:43 PM.
Mike240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 11:06 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Elapid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: North Mississippi
Posts: 247
Best to make the first shot incapacitating and lethal.
Elapid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What to do in a self defense situation KC4YIN Training Videos 8 10-09-2017 10:48 AM
Question on Pro CDP II finish jmr986 Kimber 1911 Forum 6 09-23-2016 07:03 PM