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Old 08-03-2015, 06:17 AM   #1
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Good NYTime article on police shooting

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/us...ons-later.html

WASHINGTON – The shooting looked bad. But that is when the professor is at his best. A black motorist, pulled to the side of the road for a turn-signal violation, had stuffed his hand into his pocket. The white officer yelled for him to take it out. When the driver started to comply, the officer shot him dead.

The driver was unarmed.

Taking the stand at a public inquest, William J. Lewinski, the psychology professor, explained that the officer had no choice but to act.

“In simple terms,” the district attorney in Portland, Ore., asked, “if I see the gun, I’m dead?”

“In simple terms, that’s it,” Dr. Lewinski replied.

...
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:46 PM   #2
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Wink You got me....

Why in the world do supposedly rational people do utterly stupid things around police officers?? They just don't seem to think of the consequences of their actions. Stick your hand in your pocket, make a quick move to the glovebox, refuse to comply with commands because, "I'm not a criminal"!!

Keep one thing in mind folks, that officer simply wants to comply with Malone's first rule of police work (from the movie The Untouchables, with Sean Connery as Malone!!).

RULE #1.) Go home at the end of your shift!!

These kind of incidents remind me of a situation I encountered about 10 years ago. It was the day after Christmas and I was headed to the hunting camp for the last week of deer hunting season which ends on New Years Day. I was happily motoring my way through Oglethorpe County, Georgia when I encountered a DUI Checkpoint. There were numerous Oglethorpe County Sheriff's Deputies, patrol cars, flashing blue lights and cars pulled over.

As I slowly approached the first deputy (a lieutenant), I had the driver's side window rolled all the way down and my hands hanging out the window. Possibly thinking this a bit odd, the lieutenant asked me, "What are you doing?" I notified him that, "I am legally armed, Lieutenant!. There is a .44 caliber revolver on my left hip. There are two other handguns on the seat beside me and three rifles behind the seat. How do you want to proceed with this?" I was dressed up to resemble a bush, in full camo and he obviously figured out where I was headed. His response to the overload of information was very simply, "I'm looking for drunks, not guns. Get the hell out of here!!" I told him to have a nice day, be careful and enjoy the holidays.

Throughout the whole encounter, he had my hands in full view. This turned him into a very happy servant of the people. He knew that I was not a threat at all. Totally innocent yet stupid behavior during this incident could easily have gotten me shot. A little bit of using the head for something other than a hat rack turned it into a short, quick and humorous meeting with a law enforcement officer. We both went home at the end of the day!!!

Use your head folks!!! Then you won't be that innocent, unarmed person shot by a police officer. Now if you actually are a criminal, well, you ain't so bright anyway. In which case, your head will probably receive a nice new flow thru ventilation system and your mama will be telling the Atlanta Journal/Constitution what a wonderful, loving, innocent boy you were.

When I was 20 I wanted to be a police officer. I actually put in applications with the City of Ft Lauderdale, the Broward County Sheriff's Office and the Florida Highway Patrol. 43 years later, now, I'm glad that I got a job with Ma Bell before any of those folks called me. I am grateful to the men and women that do this job, but with today's society, I glad it ain't me!! Thanks to ALL law enforcement for the job they do. Ya'll be safe out there!!
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Last edited by Lineman; 08-03-2015 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 08-04-2015, 01:35 AM   #3
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The NY Times article is excellent, but even better is one of the videos to be found when following the link "Force Training Institute" from inside the NYT article. The video is titled Hollywood vs. Reality: Officer Involved Shootings. It is only about 15 minutes long, but has some interesting information in it.

Regardless of what some critics might say, Dr. Lewinski sounds to me like he is on the right track. What he says makes a whole lot of sense . . .



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Old 08-04-2015, 04:46 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Richard View Post
... even better is one of the videos to be found when following the link "Force Training Institute" from inside the NYT article. ...
I thought the times and explanation in this PDF were... dismaying!

http://www.forcescience.org/articles/shotback.pdf

God love (and protect!!) the cops -- but not a job I would EVER want to do!
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:49 AM   #5
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Lewinski and his studies have been good for cops. His testimony and studies were why one of ours was acquitted on a shooting. But...

Cops can be so dumb with verbal commands. We have preached for years that the first and only command is "Police Don't Move!" till compliance is gained and all movement has ceased. Movement to cover, movement in general and creating distance reduced panic and urgency. Additional detailed commands of exactly what you want done are then controlled so no surprises occur. It is then easier in the mind to react to threat ques since any movement is non compliant and only need to evaluated in the negative to determine a stimulus to shoot. Yet still some insist on yelling "Show me your hands". The speed direction and angle at which they will be presented and what will be in them is unpredictable and must be assessed.

NYPD is and has been far behind the country on training.

Shooting someone for doing what you tell them is stupid in the least when they present empty hands or a phone or wallet etc. officer could have stepped back and away to a position of advantage and cover at the furtive movement to the pocket faster than he could have drawn and shot.

Ask me how I know? Because I learned this myself years ago when I screwed a gun in a guys ear on a stop for a similar move. Thank god I didn't shoot for it would not have justified. When we put ourselves in and stay in positions to be surprised and startled bad things usually happen
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:17 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by SnowTao View Post
I thought the times and explanation in this PDF were... dismaying!

http://www.forcescience.org/articles/shotback.pdf

God love (and protect!!) the cops -- but not a job I would EVER want to do!

The research and the article are excellent!

My takeaway from this is that, like police officers, aficionados of "open carry" don't have a chance if a subject intends to shoot them. It is only our ability to carry concealed that gives us a fighting chance against an armed subject with murder in his heart. If he knows we are armed, and if he wishes to neutralize us, he will ALWAYS be able to shoot first. The only recourse for a police officer who must carry openly is his or her body armor. For the rest of us, it is the stealth of concealment.



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