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Old 11-21-2016, 03:45 PM   #1
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Georgia "Law of Self defense" class

Hey y'all! I took this class last year. (I've read his book twice too!) Excellent class! I esp. like his focus on not only the GA law, but the Georgia JURY INSTRUCTIONS, which can and not infrequently does 'change' the law (well, at least how's the laws are defined and applied!).

Allllll kinds of details that I would never have known about preparing for 'winning the second battle' -- the legal one!

[From his email:]
Attorney Andrew Branca, Law of Self Defense, is going to be teaching in your area!

On Saturday March 25, The Complete Combatant will be hosting Andrew Branca as he teaches his LEVEL 1 Law of Self Defense Course,
specific to the laws of Georgia. You've armed yourself to win the physical fight. Attend this course to prepare yourself to win the legal fight
that follows. To find out more go to:

Upcoming Events ? Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: Atlanta GA (3/25/17) ? Law of Self Defense

IMPORTANT: Register by February 24 and save $50!

Hope to see you March 25!
Emily Branca
Law of Self Defense


P.S. As mentioned, this course is specific to Georgia self-defense law.
(Yah get the book as part of the course too; I gave it, since it was my second copy, to my good friend -- with whom I went to town today and he put in his application for his CCW permit! Got his S&W M&P Shield 9mm last week!)
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:38 PM   #2
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So this class is all about what happens after the shooting? That would be interesting. I taken 2 GA Gun Law classes but mainly they tell you what to say/not say after the shooting and not to talk until your lawyer is present. I can imagine that there is a lot more to come after the shooting!
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:16 AM   #3
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I'm positive that, if faced with a life and death situation, I'm not going to be thinking about the law. That is why I have US Law Shield.
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:39 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Insta-Gator View Post
I'm positive that, if faced with a life and death situation, I'm not going to be thinking about the law. That is why I have US Law Shield.
Yep! We have it too. Went to the Law Shield class for $10 and they did outstanding job! I highly recommend the class. I signed up for Law Shield that night.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:13 AM   #5
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I've struggled with the morality issue on this myself.

The problem for me has always been that most jurisdictions allow you to shoot if you believe you are in danger. But then, this implies the attacker has done something "threatening" to convince you that this is really a lethal confrontation.

My gut tells me that in that "legal scenario" I am already reacting to a man who is acting.

Part of me believes Han Solo had it right.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by starnovi View Post
So this class is all about what happens after the shooting? That would be interesting. I taken 2 GA Gun Law classes but mainly they tell you what to say/not say after the shooting and not to talk until your lawyer is present. I can imagine that there is a lot more to come after the shooting!
Yeah. I ran across Branca (Law of Self Defense ? The indispensable guide to self defense law is finally back. Mr. Branca's book is the only MUST READ for all present and future gun owners. Ignore it at your own peril.) during the St Trayvon of Skittles affair. Branca is also on a big legal/lawyer's blog. He was doing a day-by-day deconstruction of the day in court. (Unexpected thanks to Legal Insurrection on 2nd Anniversary of Zimmerman Acquittal) Really smart; I bought his book from that. Read it and was VERY dismayed!! There's a HUGE amount of specific and detailed 'stuff' you need to know before LEGALLY being able to "potentially use lethal force back." Whew! Book is VERY worthwhile. (And I thought that even when I spent, like, $40 for it!!)

However, EXTREMELY useful info! His "five legal principles" are below (well, not HIS -- the ones in law across the country, except some states (with "Stand Your Ground" laws Stand Your Ground Laws | Self Defense | Zimmerman | Florida ) don't require no. XX5XX...). OOPS! Big mistake -- number 4!! ( And he made us 'chant them' along with him throughout the class. THESE 'rules' are just as important as the "treat all guns as if they are loaded. and etc." (Maybe moreso: you can 'get away' with putting your finger on the trigger too soon: you (probably) CANNOT get away in court with 'guessing wrong' on, say, imminence!)
  1. Innocence
  2. Imminence
  3. Proportionality
  4. Avoidance
  5. Reasonableness

Each of those five items have specific and important inclusions and exclusions.... So, you should take this class (in your own state) because each of those five has details and inclusions and exclusions and weird stuff and so on... that WILL affect your ability to "win the second fight: the legal one!"

The biggest thing to know is that the prosecutor has to 'disprove' ONLY ONE of those; YOU must prove you meet ALL five (or four in STG states; dropping 4. Avoidance, IF you were where you were legally allowed to be!) to be ALLOWED to claim self-defense...

Y'all who have been around a while may remember me fighting with Richard (who claimed "to have gone to law school but was not a lawyer")? He kept insisting what mattered was how the law(s) was (were) written -- Branca puts legitimate (equal!) stress on, for example, jury instructions: not what the law "is" (depends on the meaning of what "is" is?!) but on what the judges in the state TELL the jury about applying the law and on (earlier) case law...

One thing that specifically still burns my butt towards Richard (I'm a girl, I hold grudges, it's my job!) was his INSISTENCE that Branca (and thus I) was wrong about this: to be ABLE to claim self-defense in court, you first must CONFESS to having committed the crime. But here's the deal: in order to claim self-defense, you MUST say: "YES I shot the guy, but there are extenuating circumstances."

Richard claimed "the law" always lets you claim self-defense. NO! No, it does NOT! IF the prosecutor can convince the judge (in chambers, so the jury isn't privy to it) that ANY ONE of those five is not in place? The judge can REFUSE to allow the words "self-defense" to even be SPOKEN in court! So -- you have JUST confessed to murder / manslaughter and the judge has just DENIED YOU the self-defense defense!! (You have just paddled up shit's creek baby!! )

Georgia-SPECIFIC (case) law: (if you do NOT live in GA, do NOT assume this applies to you in any other state!!):
"It a defendant does not admit to committing any element of the crime charges, then he is not entitled to ... the affirmative defense." Rutland vs. State 639 S.E.2d 628 (GA Ct App. 2006)
(The "affirmative defense" is "self-defense"; where YOU ADMIT TO THE CRIME, but with extenuating circumstance, right?! YOU CONFESS that you shot the guy,but should be let off because it was self-defense!)

(And, oh yeah; "I didn't mean to do it! I didn't mean to shoot him! It was an accident!"? DENIES YOU A CLAIM OF SELF-DEFENSE!
Accidental =/= self-defense
Accidental = criminally negligent homocide!

Georgia IS a Stand Your Ground state: however -- does anyone know that the SYG law means ONLY that you do not have to "prove" you did not have a 100%-safe avenue and ability for escape? (It removes item 4. above; you don't have to prove you could not have escaped; only that you were where you were legally entitled to be.)

In the non-SYG states (16 of 'em left!), the prosecutor-wanting-to-be-mayor can try to hang you with: "Look judge, he COULD have climbed under that table, then scrambled over that divider, then run to the back door, then picked the lock, and THEN made it to safety WITHOUT killing the attacker!! Yes, even pulling his 95-yr-old blind granny behind him in her wheelchair!! He WANTED to kill the guy, that's why he was carrying that eeeevil scary-big gun with those super-high-powered reloaded bullets! He WANTED to kill someone! He went out LOOKING to kill someone!"

(Y'all don't think for a second that is NOT what, say, a California prosecutor will try to hang you with?! And what about the jury of MPAI liberal CA weenies? THEY will happily go for it!) (Note: I do NOT know if CA is a SYG state or not -- not my state, not my problem. If it's your state, it IS your problem to find out!!)



Anyway, Branca's class goes way way deeper into keepin' you out of jail than I will here. The book is worth the price; the CLASS is worth the price. (You get the book free with the class; I gave my 'free' copy to my friends...)

Last edited by Ice-and-Snow; 11-26-2016 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:32 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Insta-Gator View Post
I'm positive that, if faced with a life and death situation, I'm not going to be thinking about the law. That is why I have US Law Shield.
Hey Gary -- let me ask you a pointed question; Is "Law Shield" one of the "gun owner insurance co.'s" that only pay off AFTER YOU'RE FOUND NOT GUILTY!? (Which automatically gives them an incentive to let you get hanged?)

I belong to the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Fund (ACLDN) -- THEY are committed to helping right AFTER the shooting, BEFORE the arrest and trial!! They throw you an immediate $10k to retain your lawyer right away and they provide a state list of lawyers who've committed to answering a member's call! They suggest you meet the local ones and decide 'who's yer daddy?' WAY before "need." They can refer you to expert witnesses if needed (BEFORE trial! Right?) -- and help pay the costs WHEN you need it, not 'AFTER you're found not guilty.'

Have you got $10k+ lying around to put to immediate use -- JUST to start up the legal protection process?! Me neither!

They also send you,when you join (beside the list of lawyers) , 8 DVDs of education. The newsletter has multiple lawyers discussing their states law in relation to a specific question... You can read the newsletters online: worthwhile! Journal (They also suggest recording your education, to show the court that you DO know what you're doing in deciding to pull a gun!)

(As you can tell) I'm very pleased with this outfit.

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Old 11-25-2016, 08:07 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Tourist View Post
The problem for me has always been that most jurisdictions allow you to shoot if you believe you are in danger. But then, this implies the attacker has done something "threatening" to convince you that this is really a lethal confrontation.
Sorry, Chico -- nearly ALL jurisdictions DO NOT allow you to shoot if you believe you are in danger. (It's probably all jurisdictions, but I can't validate that at the moment.)

One of the things Branca stresses, that makes total sense to me, is that you must be able to ARTICULATE IN COURT (and probably to police investigators, after the shooting, and ONLY WITH your lawyer at your side!) what, specifically and in detail, led you to believe you were faced with "imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm to you and/or some other innocent." (Thus, the ACLDN suggesting strongly that you DOCUMENT your training! Be ABLE to show the basis on which you determined you were IN a life-threatening circumstance!)

You CANNOT say: "it was a black teenager in a hoodie looking mean. I was scared so I drew my gun to keep him away from me." That is "brandishing" -- LEGALLY you have just escalated that encounter into a lethal-force encounter -- and YOU are the aggressor!! You JUST wiped out ANY chance of claiming self-defense: you "killed" 1. Innocence!! (YOU brought a gun to a knife fight or maybe just a fist fight! 1. Innocence destroyed; NO SELF-DEFENSE in court! Permanent OOPS!)

implies the attacker has done something "threatening" to convince you that this is really a lethal confrontation.
It cannot be merely "threatening"; it has to be (articulably and specifically) threatening "lethal or serious bodily harm" -- AND you must be able to show both WHY that was so and why YOU KNEW it was so! Branca stresses the need to carry non-lethal protection too. Chico -- you and I have discussed this on the phone: *I* am not willing to carry 'less-than-lethal' weapons. (I HAVE pepper spray -- KIMBER brand even! -- and do not / will not carry it.) Your knives give you that intermediate (NON-lethal) step.

For example: y'all know the Tueller Drill? 21 feet and all?! So, if the guy with the knife is 30' feet away -- CAN YOU ARTICULATE IN COURT (or to the police investigators WITH your lawyer at your side!) the specifics of the Tueller drill, the fact that you are NOT capable of drawing, aiming, firing, AND DISABLING the bad guy within the 1.5 to 2 seconds it would take him to stab you? This is often where having the expert witness is really REALLY important! YOU would be trying to describe, LIKE an expert, the reality of a probably lethal attack, in court (IF your lawyer lets you take the stand, and s/he probably will NOT!). The expert witness can describe the studies and research SHOWING you could not have protected yourself from a knife attack within those precious 2 seconds!! (Not even most COPS can!)

Oh, and Branca's course ALSO teaches how to determine (and ARTICULATE IN COURT!) if you're "threatened with death or serious bodily injury to you or another innocent," which allowed you to decide to respond with lethal (the required: 3. Proportionality) self-defense. The one *I* rely on (and maybe/probably too much!) is "disparity of force." One reason I do not carry less-than-lethal is: as an old lady, I have the "female attacked by a male" and "oldster attacked by younger" -- both of which provide a disparity of force, allowing me (I HOPE!) to legitimately cover 3. Proportionality in my need for lethal self-defense.

Big strong young guy? Would need disparity in numbers (the usual feral GANG ) or weaponry; in a non-STG state would need to prove there was available no escape route with 100% safety and so on. There is ALSO (to be considered) the inability to escape: Zimmerman, pinned to the ground being pounded? Disparity of force. Imminent threat of death or severe bodily injury.

It's NOT as simple as: "I was scared, I shot."

(I stress again; Branca's stuff is VERY valuable. And thankfully, it's NOT "so much information I became paralyzed to act." It's information that allows me to decide ahead of time how to protect myself (in the second battle...)

(p.s., Han Solo was able to FLY AWAY TO ANOTHER PLANET.)

Last edited by Ice-and-Snow; 11-26-2016 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11-25-2016, 10:44 AM   #9
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(1) US Law Shield will send your attorney to you immediately upon placing a call with them

(2) They have your profile of contacts and will update your contacts on your situation, location, status

(3) They will also represent you in any subsequent civil case(s)

(4) yes I do.
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Old 11-26-2016, 01:34 PM   #10
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Gary -- sounds pretty good! But -- they represent you in the civil case, -- who represents you in the CRIMINAL one?

Civil "just" wipes you out financially. Criminal puts you in a box!
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