Hoping for info on EFK Fire Dragon Frame Saver Dual Action Recoil Spring - Kimber Forum

Kimber


Go Back   Kimber Forum > Kimber Forum Discussions > Kimber Talk

Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By bhunted
  • 1 Post By Mike240
  • 1 Post By Mike240
  • 1 Post By Mike240
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2017, 10:47 PM   #1
Member
 
kretch50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 46
Hoping for info on EFK Fire Dragon Frame Saver Dual Action Recoil Spring

I have a Custom Target II that I'm hoping to use in USPSA competition next spring. I have been thinking about installing an EFK Fire Dragon Frame Saver Dual Action Recoil Spring in it. Does anyone have any experience with this spring setup . . . or have an informed opinion?
kretch50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 10-27-2017, 05:49 AM   #2
Super Moderator
 
Chuck43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 32,692
I have no experience with the EFK Fire Dragon recoil springs. All springs are dual action what's so special about theirs? All my 4" and 5" 1911's have Wilson Combat flat wire springs in them. They have 10 times the life of conventional round wire springs and run a little smoother. I have yet to see a properly maintained gun with a frame that has been damaged from shooting, one of my 1911's has over 27,000 rounds through it. If you decide to install one of these springs in your gun I'd like to see a detailed report on it.
__________________
WE DON'T SHOOT TO KILL, WE SHOOT TO SAVE A LIFE.
Chuck43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 06:21 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
bhunted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sumner County, TN
Posts: 2,917
My question would be is what is so special about those that Wilson springs are not your first choice?
Chuck43 likes this.
__________________
Regards,

John, aka BHunted
NRA Life Patriot Benefactor Member - Sumner Gun - ANJRPC - GFH - Patriot Guard

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote". -Benjamin Franklin

---------------------------------------
Kimber Warrior SOC
SS Raptor Pro
Ultra Covert II
bhunted is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 10-27-2017, 12:32 PM   #4
Member
 
kretch50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 46
Answer to why I'm interested in . . .

From their website:


For 1911 Government .45 ACP, Dual Action Spring

When firing a modern pistol, the slide flies backward at great speed, and then comes to an immediate stop against the frame during recoil. This force and impact to the frame is constantly weakening the slide and vibrating the internal parts, causing cracks and malfunction and turning movements in the shooters wrist. This sudden impact causes a violent muzzle jump which temporarily throws the gun off target and upwards, causing a need for dual-action buffers.

Our Frame-Saver Dual Action Recoil Springs offer these advantages:

Impact: The elimination of the slide impacting the frame at high speed preserves the structure of the firearm - and your rather significant investment!
Muzzle Control: By changing the final backward movement of the slide from a sudden stop to a progressive stop, muzzle jump is greatly decreased by 40% giving you more control.
Function: No interference of ejection port or any feeding problems.
Progressive: This is a system designed to reduced the backward motion of the slide in progressive stages after the gun is shot. The effect of this system is that the recoil is reduced by 40% making your follow up shots much easier to shoot. This is a VERY effective system.
Stability: Better stability for your barrel. Stainless steel guide rod replaces guide rods for superior barrel support and function.
Better Accuracy: Progressively slows down your slide from heavy impact against the frame. Works just like a car shock absorber, reducing the slide impact. Lower impact means less recoil, accurate recovery of the weapon for on-target accuracy is better achieved, shot after shot. Even expert shooters can benefit from lower recoil.
Lower Frame Shock: The slide is one of the heaviest components in a semi-automatic pistol. Upon firing, the slide slams back with great energy against the frame. Frame Saver Dual Actions springs can lower this slide impact dramatically, preventing excessive wear, cracked slides and damaged frames, particularly on modern polymer framed pistols such as Glocks, Sigmas & HKs.
Drop In Fit: Direct replacement for your factory spring assembly. No modifications required.

INCLUDES SPRING

Please Note: The Government 1911 Spring also fits the 1991 A1, Springfield, Kimber, Para-Ordnance, Auto-Ordnance, Gold Cup, Delta, S&W Mark70/80, and Norinco.

Price: $64.99


This is their Website:

https://www.efkfiredragon.com/govern...on-spring.html
__________________
NRA Life Member
PA CCW
Former NRA Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, & Home Safety Instructor
Savage 10FCP-SR 6.5 Creedmoor
CZ-453 .22LR
Kimber Stainless Pro Carry II
Kimber Custom Target II
S&W Performance Center M&P 9 Shield
S&W .22 LR Model 34-1
Sig Sauer 1911-22
Mossberg SA-20
GAMO Whisper G2
kretch50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 02:18 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Mike240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,704
Originally Posted by kretch50 View Post
From their website:


For 1911 Government .45 ACP, Dual Action Spring

When firing a modern pistol, the slide flies backward at great speed, and then comes to an immediate stop against the frame during recoil. This force and impact to the frame is constantly weakening the slide and vibrating the internal parts, causing cracks and malfunction and turning movements in the shooters wrist. This sudden impact causes a violent muzzle jump which temporarily throws the gun off target and upwards, causing a need for dual-action buffers.

EH, partially true. But the slide is by design to come to a stop against the frame rails at the abutment points. There are several things in the 1911 designed to reduce and transfer energy before this happens. The barrel also stops vertically and horizontally on the bed and the VIS. This is not an entirely blowback gun which is dependent on merely spring and bolt weight.

The effects of recoil cannot be reduced. That energy must be redirected and absorbed somewhere. Cracks occur due to the power factor of the ammo not matched to the springs in the gun or being shot passed the springs service life. I agree that minimizing the impact of the slide abutment points against the ends of the rails is good but the gun is designed to function properly when these surfaces meet. Thing of it as the full stroke of an engines piston.

The stronger the spring and slowing the slide to reduce sight lift during recoil has a reverse effect of loading an excessive amount of energy which drives the slide forward at a much faster speed causing a violent crash of the lower barrel feet against the slide stop pin. I have seen more 1911s with broken slide stop pins and barrel feet than cracked slides and frames. Both the recoil speed (rearward slide travel) and counter recoil(forward slide speed) is somewhat a balancing act.

The more you use the spring instead of shooting technique to reduce the sights lift, the more sight dive you will get in counter recoil. I do not want to lift the gun back to the POA after returning to battery. I want the gun to run flat.


Our Frame-Saver Dual Action Recoil Springs offer these advantages:

Impact: The elimination of the slide impacting the frame at high speed preserves the structure of the firearm - and your rather significant investment!
Muzzle Control: By changing the final backward movement of the slide from a sudden stop to a progressive stop, muzzle jump is greatly decreased by 40% giving you more control.
Function: No interference of ejection port or any feeding problems.
Progressive: This is a system designed to reduced the backward motion of the slide in progressive stages after the gun is shot. The effect of this system is that the recoil is reduced by 40% making your follow up shots much easier to shoot. This is a VERY effective system.
Stability: Better stability for your barrel. Stainless steel guide rod replaces guide rods for superior barrel support and function.
Better Accuracy: Progressively slows down your slide from heavy impact against the frame. Works just like a car shock absorber, reducing the slide impact. Lower impact means less recoil, accurate recovery of the weapon for on-target accuracy is better achieved, shot after shot. Even expert shooters can benefit from lower recoil.
Accuracy and recoil management are two different things. This device cannot improve accuracy. Lift and Recovery...possibly, but accuracy is the shooter's ability to work the trigger with out disturbing the aim. Period.
Lower Frame Shock: The slide is one of the heaviest components in a semi-automatic pistol. Upon firing, the slide slams back with great energy against the frame. Frame Saver Dual Actions springs can lower this slide impact dramatically, preventing excessive wear, cracked slides and damaged frames, particularly on modern polymer framed pistols such as Glocks, Sigmas & HKs.
Drop In Fit: Direct replacement for your factory spring assembly. No modifications required.

INCLUDES SPRING

Please Note: The Government 1911 Spring also fits the 1991 A1, Springfield, Kimber, Para-Ordnance, Auto-Ordnance, Gold Cup, Delta, S&W Mark70/80, and Norinco.

Price: $64.99


This is their Website:

https://www.efkfiredragon.com/govern...on-spring.html

Check out Sprinco (used to be Chandler Arms or something...I won a Springco system (very similar to this Dragon thing) years ago at a match. Required a more physical fatigue to keep the gun running well due to the spring rates. Would outrun the mag spring causing failure to lock back on last round. Started peening out the slide stop notch on last round due to the excessive forward speed.

With the 1911, if you want to tune it to a particular load for competition, the recoil spring weight, mainspring weight and firing pin stop radius being set for the way you want the gun to run for your shooting style will do more.

There is a thread in the Gunsmith section stickyed on a "Conversation about springs" Maybe it will explain more of how the gun really works...
DaveinNC likes this.
__________________
Yea. Keep telling yourself that split times donít matter.
Mike240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 07:08 PM   #6
Member
 
kretch50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 46
Thanks so much for your rebuttal. That's why I posted all of the verbage from the EFK website. I wanted solid, honest, and open input on the EFK system. Now I guess it's time to go back to the drawing board and review my options.

What do you think of the Wilson Combat Flat Wire recoil system? And do you have a recommendation for recoil spring weight if I am going to be shooting non-+P loads? I'll just be using factory 185 gr. or 230 gr. loads for competition plus something very similar in reloads for routine practice and such.
__________________
NRA Life Member
PA CCW
Former NRA Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, & Home Safety Instructor
Savage 10FCP-SR 6.5 Creedmoor
CZ-453 .22LR
Kimber Stainless Pro Carry II
Kimber Custom Target II
S&W Performance Center M&P 9 Shield
S&W .22 LR Model 34-1
Sig Sauer 1911-22
Mossberg SA-20
GAMO Whisper G2
kretch50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 07:43 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Mike240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,704
I don't use flat wire only because I buy recoil springs in bulk 10 packs and have plenty. USPSA major power factor is 165. For that load I would try 14 and 16 pound recoil spring with a 19 pound maInspring. A small radius firing pin stop I have found helps keep the nose down a bit. But you technique and likes may vary. But it is a popular starting point.
Chuck43 likes this.
__________________
Yea. Keep telling yourself that split times donít matter.
Mike240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 07:46 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Mike240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,704
Most factory loads are hotter than needed for competition. Power factor is bullet weight times velocity divided by one thousand. If you don't reload check Atlanta Arms. They sell loads for USPSA power factors.
Chuck43 likes this.
__________________
Yea. Keep telling yourself that split times donít matter.
Mike240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2017, 03:36 PM   #9
Member
 
kretch50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 46
Thanks!

Thanks a lot! I hit the Atlanta Arms website and quickly found ammo with Major power factor, but at a significantly lower velocity than regular factory ammo. A power factor I like, but with less recoil? Sounds like a deal to me!
__________________
NRA Life Member
PA CCW
Former NRA Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, & Home Safety Instructor
Savage 10FCP-SR 6.5 Creedmoor
CZ-453 .22LR
Kimber Stainless Pro Carry II
Kimber Custom Target II
S&W Performance Center M&P 9 Shield
S&W .22 LR Model 34-1
Sig Sauer 1911-22
Mossberg SA-20
GAMO Whisper G2
kretch50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2017, 04:54 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Mike240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,704
The lower the power factor the less felt recoil. You can shoot a heavy bullet slow or a light fast to make the same number. some like the long push of a 230 bullet while some like the quick jab of a fast light bullet.
__________________
Yea. Keep telling yourself that split times donít matter.
Mike240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it worth it? BlondeBear63 Kimber Micro 9 Forum 84 07-04-2017 12:23 AM
SIS Ultra saved from a trade in Mike240 Gunsmith 24 08-30-2016 09:41 PM