Not "liking" a pistol vs. a "problem" with a pistol - Kimber Forum


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Old 09-27-2019, 05:30 AM   #1
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Not "liking" a pistol vs. a "problem" with a pistol

I see a lot of posts here and on other pistol brand forums about their new pistols having a "problem" or "issue". Lots of the time it is a title of the thread, for example, "problem with my new XXXXXX" or words to that effect.

Given that the pistol brands where I'm a forum member are usually mainstream, well-know builders of quality firearms (Kimber, S&W, Ruger, etc), I find myself wondering if the "problem" is with the pistol or the owner, many of whom are perhaps 1st time pistol owners. Maybe there are that many problems (I've had one out of 25 pistols I've owned and shot), or maybe it's that the new owner just doesn't like the firearm, or doesn't know what they're doing.

What do the KT experts think the ratio is? I'm betting 8 owner/operator problems for every 1 real firearm defect.
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Old 09-27-2019, 06:13 AM   #2
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I've been a member on Kimber Talk for 6 years and I try to read and help everyone posting and PM'ing me with their gun problems. I'd guesstimate that 85% of the problems could have been solved or avoided if they had read their owners manual. A very small percentage are the owners inability to operate the gun comfortably. For example it's that guns fault because they struggle to compress the recoil spring when racking the slide on the gun.
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Old 09-27-2019, 06:57 AM   #3
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Some guns are inherently more difficult for average Joe/Jane to operate. Some are too difficult for the owner to rack the slide, some have too much recoil for the operator, not enough grip to hold... on and on. That's more of a mismatch than a defect in either the operator or pistol.

Then there is the issue of quality control. Two people can have the same pistol and comparable skills, but one shoots more accurately or more reliably. Tooling wear can be significant and still be within the manufactures specs. Quality control between manufactures can vary wildly.

Then there is the issue of design and engineering. Some guns are just failed designs. Solo.

Then there's the issue of maintenance. I've read here all sorts of things from people using grease on their pistols to not even doing a field strip, cleaning and inspection prior to using for the first time.

A lot of variables. Most of which are not so easy to diagnose on discussion forums.
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:50 AM   #4
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Definitely lots of operator error kind of stuff, it must be very frustrating for the manufacturers to get bashed on the web and have people yelling at CS on the phone when they are actually the problem.

A peruse of YT will show a lot of people who don't know what they are doing, scary.

But I have personally had some mechanical issues with a weapon or two and see quite a few posted that seem legit, so I'm not sure I'd say 8/1. I will say that people with a problem are way, way more likely to post, so I'd guess for every gun problem we see there are probably 10 or more just like it out there with zero issues.

Except for maybe a few that are just junk to start with...but it doesn't take long to figure out what those are.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:17 AM   #5
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I feel if we could know the true ratio it would be less than 8/1. I agree with Phil and Chuck, KCJeep's posts.
We hear about ALL the issues, real or user induced, that's just the way it is.

Reading the manual, use quality lube and ammo, at least watch some YouTube videos and 98% of user problems could be avoided. IMO
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:19 PM   #6
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I see a lot of issues with the specifically American tendency of loading +1. I donít think OEMs like CZ even test their pistols +1. Thatís a confirmed reason for the P-07 2nd gen having a 15 round mag over the 16. It wasnít an issue with the pistol design but the way it was used. I suspect it is also the reason for the Kimber Micro 9 issues, they need like 1mm more height to resolve the 2nd round problem that only occurs when +1. I think also, this can be a disconnect between marketing and engineering at both companies. Itís a pretty common business disconnect. You donít get a lot of good explanation when these types of things happen, just eventual fixes to bring the product to market expectations that were not clear in the beginning.

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Old 09-27-2019, 01:43 PM   #7
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simply racking any new gun a 100 times quickly by hand will avoid many break in issues
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:19 PM   #8
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Reading is fun...damental. It's why they make manuals.
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:18 PM   #9
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The only problem I've ever had is with one specific pistol. It was a break-in problem, which some guys don't consider a real problem.

I was concerned because it was a smaller, name-brand 1911 that was going to be used for self-defense. I was a debt-collector at that time.

I bought some cheap commercial hardball and just plinked at the Deerfield Gun Club Range until it loosened up.

I then carried it for over eight years without a burp.
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Old 10-27-2019, 08:50 PM   #10
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One other thing to keep in mind, in most anything where you look at some sort of "review". 99% of the people with problems will post, complain and often get a fix (poor grip, poor maint. etc.)

99% of the people that have no issues with the same product will NOT post anything. So a ratio of 100:1 bad vs good doesn't mean much at all. I don't care what product you choose, this happens. Guns. Cars. Water heaters. Chain Saws. You name it.

It is just our nature to complain about what does not work, but not praising that which does.

I've seen a number of micro-9 complaints here. I know of three people that own one. I have seen them ALL run through all sorts of ammo at the range with nary a whimper out of the guns. And not a one of 'em posts here (or on other gun fora.)

Which makes the internet problematic for deciding whether to buy or not. Once you visit here for a while, you will recognize a few people that are both knowledgeable about firearms AND are willing to help with advice, or post informative reviews. It is just a fact that recognizing them takes time, and until then, it is hard to trust random strangers.

Now if you find a product that has 100% bad reviews, it is time to become concerned. But if there are 99 bad and 5 good, I would not be nearly so concerned and would trust my judgement after examining the product with my own eyes and hands.
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