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Old 08-27-2016, 08:11 PM   #1
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Getting back to Rusty...

Hey Rusty! I asked Chuck (hi Chuck!) if it would be okay if I finished answering your message from the "Lyin' Donald" thread he closed -- and ever-gentleman that he is, he said yes... So gird your loins; here I come!
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:13 PM   #2
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(where i started on the other thread:)

Originally Posted by RustyIron
Whadaya think, Snowtao? Are you impressed by my late-night verbosity? I would have thought that the caffeine would have worn off by now.
Oh Rusty, it's good (well, it's verbose and a bit warm-and-fuzzy) ... but alas, not quite right. (Geez, yah had tah go and wave a big ol' red flag at a coffee-drinking bull, eh?! )

Originally Posted by RustyIron
This is a confusing issue. Many moons ago, I worked in a factory environment, and my two favorite helpers were Spanish speaking women. They were mine because they were the best help in the plant. They were smart, conscientious, hard working when it was necessary, and trustworthy. The lighter-skinned English speakers in the plant were... not as desirable.
The problem always is -- it's not (always) the folks who came here 20 years ago illegally and have been raising (often WAY too many!) kids and working their butts off. You can say, "well, they've been great! Hard working, conscientious, law-abiding" (well, except the first big law they broke...) because they know what living in a hellhole that is Mexico. (Their kids? Are sucking the "America is the big horrid oppressive country that should be invaded and "returned" to us! Regression to the mean – means the ‘goods ones’ will have kids who are more like the folks who MADE mexico into a hellhole, than like American kids!)

('nother aside: did you know huge swathes of "millennials" and what they're calling "Generation Z" ACTUALLY BELIEVE that America *invented* slavery? That it never existed anywhere before (or since) -- and they are 100% SURE that America is the Great Satan, who invented it! And then you wonder why they are so uninterested in protecting this country?!)

AND your "good" mexican illegals have no stake in the Founding Principles. Hell, most of them have no understanding (or knowledge) whatsoever ABOUT our Founding Principles. Criminal politicians? That's normal (to them)! (Didn't used to be so here.) Paying bribes to corrupt cops? That's normal (to them)! (Not so much here.) Subverting and cheating the welfare, food stamp, housing, schooling, medical, disability, and tax systems? That's normal (to them)! (And, the worse it gets here, the more "Founding stock" start to play that game -- no one wants to be a chump!) (And WHO turned the game into a chump's game?! Montana's fav politicians!)

AND, then we get to second and third generations:
The newest example: the impressive multi-generational study of Mexican-American assimilation carried out by two UCLA sociologists, Vilma Ortiz and Edward E. Telles of UCLA's Chicano Studies Research Center.

Their 2008 book, Generations of Exclusion: Mexican Americans, Assimilation, and Race, decisively concludes a long-running debate about Mexican immigrants.

Telles and Ortiz write:
"Despite sixty years of political and legal battles to improve the education of Mexican Americans, they continue to have the lowest average education levels and the highest high school dropout rates among major ethnic and racial groups in the United States. … However, leading analysts, apparently believing in the universality of assimilation, argue that this is the result of a large first and second generation population still adjusting to American society. … These and other scholars predict that Mexican Americans will have the same levels of education and socioeconomic status as the dominant non-Hispanic white population by the fourth generation."

Steve Sailer: iSteve: My VDARE review of "Generations of Exclusion: Mexican Americans, Assimilation, and Race"

AND (this one is important for you Rusty -- it's a mistake (a BIG mistake) to make "population conclusions" on the basis of the couple or few in that population whom you know... Exceptions do not count!
A major empirical question about immigration is whether or not the descendants of Mexican immigrants will turn out to be prosperous people who pay in far more in taxes than they require in government services.
...
there were plenty of working class and poor Mexicans in Southern California in the 1960 who did not marry out of their cultures. Their numerous children and grandchildren have not, on the whole, set the world on fire.

The lack of high-achieving Hispanics in Southern California in 2013 is startling when you start to look for them. The current mayor is Mexican, but he's a mediocrity who took four tries to pass the bar exam. The leading candidate to replace him, the dapper Rhodes Scholar Eric Garcetti, claims to be Mexican on the grounds that an Italian ancestor got kicked out of Mexico during the Revolution one hundred years ago.

My observations have been systematically verified by a major social science project affiliated with the UCLA Chicano Studies department. The 2008 book Generations of Exclusion: Mexican Americans, Assimilation, and Race by UCLA sociologist Vilma Ortiz and Princeton sociologist Edward Telles documents a 35-year-long study of, first, a sizable 1965 sample of Mexican-Americans in Los Angeles and San Antonio, followed by a 2000 study of the 1965 sample's children, plus questions about the 2000 sample's children.

In their sample, not surprisingly, they saw rapid growth in total years of education from first generation (immigrants from Mexico) to the second generation (American-born children of the immigrants). In the 2000 sample, however, there was no further continued ascent, even unto the fifth generation.
...

Steve Sailer: iSteve: Telles & Ortiz: 5th generation Mexican-Americans not catching up educationally
Coming here does NOT make them American -- nor able to BECOME American! The thing that makes America ({sigh} that made America) is the intelligence and Founding Principles of the Founding stock!

(Another aside: My friend keeps struggling with: 'the Indians (dot not feather) he works with are smart and hardworking' ... "Uh yeah-of-course! You work in a HIGH TECH FIELD!! They only hire the best and brightest they can find! You are having trouble right now finding some best-and-brightest to hire!" Go watch this TED Talk to get a broader view of their background, history and people! Just 17 minutes and OMG!! They are SOOOOO not us!


Then to get the real picture(s), (not all "prettied up" for the TED crowd of liberals): (warning VERY graphic, but all too accurate!
Filthy India Photos, Chinese Netizen Reactions ? chinaSMACK
https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/...hithole-india/


In order to be and continue to be a high-tech nation, the 'national average IQ' has to remain above a certain level. (Notice, how once NASA's mission became "diversity uber alles" -- we have barely done any large successful projects. Notice how the MILITARY (important, yes?!) have been degraded and made ineffective by focusing on illegals and women and foreigners... Bringing in several million LOW IQ people automatically lowers the average national IQ.

(Furious aside: After "Major" Nidal Hassan shot up a military base ("aloha snackbar"!!), the general in charge said it was "MORE important that 'we' not get all racist" (islam is NOT a race; it's a religious and political system devoted to destroying ALL competitors!) -- before they had even buried the soldiers that filthy-freak had murdered! They held up the court martial for months because they couldn't bring him into a military court unshaven ("out of uniform"), but they weren't willing to knock his butt to the floor and shave his effing muslim beard off! This multiple murderer of our young people -- and the goddamned military was playing stupid games!!)


If any of y'all spend your time watching/listening to the mainstream media -- you are SO unaware of what's really going on!

(And onward... Oh Rusty, prolly not the best idea to wave red flags at me!) (On the other hand -- where the hell ELSE are you guys (and gals) going to see some reality!?!?!)
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Last edited by Ice-and-Snow; 08-27-2016 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
After a long time of working together, one lady confided in me that she was an illegal. And her name was not her name--she was someone else. And many of the workers at this company were also illegal. I was blown away, because I never considered such a possibility. I was also blown away that I was entrusted with such a serious secret.
Her name was not her name -- so she STOLE someone else's ID! Uh, would that not be crime number 2?! How would you like to be that person trying to clear up your illegally used Social Security and employment records!? How about any crimes (like, say, illegally getting welfare or Aid to Dependent Children or any other govt "benefit" -- when you have never even lived in that state?

"Oh, but she was nice." (Yeah, that snake only poisoned someone else's well!) (And, I'd point out, she trusted you to 'aid-and-abet' her in her law-breaking!) (No offense Rusty, she could tell you're a good guy -- the problem is; she brought you into her criminal behavior, yes?)

Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
But after thinking about it, it made sense. If you're from someplace else and want a better life for your family, you'll do whatever it takes. You and I all know about the DMV, the IRS, TSA, and other government agencies--it could take years of red tape to go the legal route. Instead, these self-sufficient people did what was necessary to obtain a better life for their families NOW.
{wince} "It made sense; you can't get what you want legally, so you'll just break the law to get it!" Dyah not see that is what you're buying into because you liked her and she was a hard worker? "Ohhhhhh, it take so long to get what you want legally, so screw it, just break the law"?! (And this is the kind of people you would encourage to come here?!)

A better life -- on the Backs of people who either inherited what their forebears build with their blood, sweat, and tears or who accepted the laws of the place they wanted to be -- and waited to come legally!

Dyah see you're excusing law-breaking because you liked the law-breaker? You're okay with someone ELSE having trouble in their financial/legal/govt'al life because she did not steal your id?!?! You're okay with the tax dollars pulled by force from your family, friends, and 'extended genetic family' (i..e, the people whose forebears BUILT this country!) To be given to a criminal who broke at least TWO laws (crossing the border and using someone ELSEíS ID!).

Here's Steve Sailer again:
Q. Whatís race all about?
A. Relatedness.
Race is about who is related to whom.

Q. Do you mean a race is a family?
A. Yes, an extended family. (To be precise, a particular type of extended family, one thatís more coherent over time than the norm, a distinction Iíll explain below.)

Q. Race means family? Iíve never heard of such a thing!
A. Itís remarkable how seldom this concept essential to understanding how the world works is mentioned in the press. Yet, in my Random House Websterís College Dictionary, the first definition of "race" is:
"1. A group of persons related by common descent or heredity."
...
Q. Arenít we all related to each other?
A. Yes, thatís why weíre "the human race."

Q. If weíre all related to each other, how can one person be more related to some people than to other people?
A. How can you be more related to your mother than you are to your aunt? Or to my mother?

Q. If races exist, how can somebody belong to more than one race?
A. If extended families exist, how can you belong to your motherís extended family and to your fatherís extended family?
...
Q. Isnít race just a social construct?
A. Relatedness is the most real thing in the world: mother, father, baby.

Steve Sailer: iSteve: The Race FAQ
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:24 PM   #4
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(Please realize Rusty, I'm not yelling at you (well, not entirely ) but at the horrible situation we find ourselves and our beloved country in -- and people just do. not. get. it!

Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
And they weren't really taking jobs from Americans. The white people in that factory were not... high quality. Face it, if a non-English speaker can do a better job than you, then you've squandered your opportunities and might not be very motivated. And for the employers, it's a great opportunity. Non-English speakers are going to be limited in what jobs they can do. So a really smart person might be stuck doing a more menial task just because their language limitations are their glass ceiling. But they'll do that menial task VERY well.
Oh well, then, that's just FINE that they stole into the country and then stole someone elseís ID Ė and are using social services and other benefits of a civilization they merely stole into; they and their forebears had nothing to do with BUILDING it, they're just stealing it from the "our posterity" this country was FOUNDED for?!


Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
I've got enough anecdotes to bring down the KT server, but let me tell you of one from a couple months ago. A buddy from MN and I were talking. They don't see many non-white people up there, as I suspect is the case with many who will be reading this. So Marv was telling me that he had a giant tree cut out of his yard. I think he told me the story because of my multicultural-egalitarian leanings. But he said that the guys cutting down the tree were Mexican. The owner of the company told him that he had tried to hire white guys, but he couldn't find anyone who would reliably show up to work.
I hear/read this a lot: I suppose, then, that it must be true that from the founding of this country until the leftie-libs stopped guarding our borders that: NO fruit was ever picked in the U.S.; there were no hotels cleaned; no lawns mowed; no trees cut down; no factories had any workers... Yup. This country NEVER had any work performed until the borders were flooded with illegals?!

Sure, itís always a problem to hire Americans to work FOR ILLEGAL WAGES!!

Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
Trump is a pragmatic guy. Maybe he'll start importing productive people, and deporting all the natural born citizens who are job-shy.
We really really do NOT need more people! (Well, I have a soft-spot for the Afrikaners, but doubt they'd come!)

It's extremely important NOT to apply 'personal anecdotes' to actual decision making. There's even an initialism used over on the far right:

IKAGO = "I know a good one."

We ALL know "good ones" -- but we don't usually or often run across the vast majority! It's easy to ignore the actual ramifications and damage and danger and injury and crime when we only think about the IKAGOs -- but THEY are not representative!
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by SnowTao View Post
Hey Rusty! I asked Chuck (hi Chuck!) if it would be okay if I finished answering your message from the "Lyin' Donald" thread he closed -- and ever-gentleman that he is, he said yes... So gird your loins; here I come!
Chuck has never said the word "NO" to a lady in his life...

Had it been one of the KT boyz the answer would have been...

"Have you lost your GD mind ?? "I closed that thread for a reason"....
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:41 PM   #6
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ST, you're amazing .....I wouldn't want to argue with you but of course, we agree on most things...
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:51 PM   #7
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Unlike some folks from StLou, CHUCK is always a gentleman!
{wink}
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:34 PM   #8
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I've probably had more interactions with illegals then any one else on this site, both professionally and personally.

You can generally split them into two groups. Both looking for a better life, one group are good hard working honest people that are a joy to be around. The other are criminals, some of the most evil and ruthless people I have ever meet.

But the one thing that 99% of them have in common is. They are not looking to merge into our society, to become an American citizen out of respect for the country and its history and values. Instead they are all to happy to bring the 'ways' of the world they left for a better life with them and cling to them. This is how every major city and a lot of small towns in California has areas that resemble a town in Mexico, you can never truely leave a place if you bring it with you. The problem is illegals do not want to be Americans, they just want the benifits of living in America. If left unchecked you end up with America being just like the place they left.
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:44 PM   #9
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El, you feisty vixen. Are you so longing for Richard that you are trying to turn me into his surrogate? While the position would indeed be an honor, I'm afraid I lack the mental acuity and robust vocabulary. Besides, it's late and I need to get up early.

Buenas noches, mi amiga.
Roberto

Last edited by RustyIron; 08-28-2016 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 08-28-2016, 03:33 AM   #10
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I'm always amazed when human thoughts and reality of purpose are repositioned within a "box". Seems to repeat itself in America every four years.
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