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Old 12-07-2017, 02:43 PM   #1
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Gun Law debate (intro)

So inspired by conversation on another thread, I thought it would be interesting to start a thread focused solely on the issue of gun laws themselves. Since that is an incredibly broad topic, I have the idea of splitting it into multiple focused parts over the course of a couple of weeks. I was wondering if anyone would be interested?

To add some fuel to the fire, let me start off by saying that I am in favor of gun control (a possibly controversial stand for a Kimber forum ). However, I also think that the majority of gun laws that we have now are silly and I am definitely not in favor of most gun control legislation from the political arena.

Now, what I'm NOT trying to do is stir up a pot that just ends up in people yelling at each other and hurt feelings. Also, when I'm talking about "gun control laws," I'm specifically talking about firearms that are currently considered as being for the "civilian" market.

In the end, there will be no real "point" to this exercise as it won't change anything in the greater scheme of things. However, I think it can be helpful to relook your opinions from time to time and a healthy debate can not only make someone rethink their own views in some cases, but also be able to strengthen them and it can help you examine "why" something is actually good.

So let me know what you all think. If people feel that this could make for an interesting diversionary topic, I'll start another post this week sometime. If most people feel that it's a waste of their time, I'll simply drop it.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:10 PM   #2
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I don't believe any laws can control gun useage but the laws that we have on the books, if they are enforced, are to punish those that missed use them i.e. robberies and murders etc, after the fact. They are not deterrents.
The liberal agenda is to limit and minimize firearms availability and to ultimately disarm the American populace. Make no mistake - that is their goal. That is why I say do not compromise with them; we have enough "gun control" laws.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:17 PM   #3
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The laws can be confusing and hard to understand sometimes. Here in WVa you no longer need a permit to conceal carry or open carry. On the surface, as a gun guy, this seemed like a good thing. But then on second thought this means you have lots of people carrying guns with no training or testing what-so-ever. That is a little disturbing at times.

When you see some guy walking into McDonald's with a big single action Blackhawk open on his belt it makes you wonder ...cowboy or clown?

Then again ... street crime here is almost nonexistent ... most shootings you hear about are either drug related between buyers and sellers or domestic issues, "Uncle Bob shoots Jimmy-Joe for taking his truck or drinking his liquor" ... that kind of stuff. Not really having anything to do with concealed carry or self defense issues.

So while I strongly support the 2nd A and everyone's right to protect themselves, I still feel that we all should have some sort of safety training to carry guns in public places. Just my 2 cents. Good thread!
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:38 PM   #4
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Only thing I'll say is we are where we are with our rights being INFRINGED in every state because of personal opinions. I don't have an opinion, there like butt holes god gave one to everybody. But I do know FACTS and "Shall not be Infringed" means just that. Every single Federal and State gun law violates the 2nd Ammendment infringement clause. And States Rights DO NOT superceed the constitution. Those not enumerated in the constitution are LEFT to the States. States still have to abide to the bill of rights.
No one has the right to dictate to a free man.

That's my two.cents.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:55 PM   #5
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So are felons OK to own guns? If you believe that felons should not be allowed to own guns, then you are OK with a little infringement. If you believe in the literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, then you are OK with gang members and crazy people walking around with guns. There simply must be some level of "infringement" and control.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:06 PM   #6
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Sorry, but the only people who WILL abide by gun laws are those who will follow other laws. The people who are "gang members" are not going to follow the law anyway.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Elf1 View Post
Sorry, but the only people who WILL abide by gun laws are those who will follow other laws. The people who are "gang members" are not going to follow the law anyway.
It says "shall not be infringed", not "only if you don't break the law". If we believe in a literal interpretation of the 2A then we have to be OK with anyone having guns. Anyone. My point is there simply has to be some level of infringement in civilized society. There are no provisions in the 2A for limiting arms ownership to only law abiding citizens. Why can't felons who do their time own guns? Not all felons are violent. Why can't they own guns if their crime was some white collar thing like embezzlement or money laundering?
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by NewStainless View Post
So are felons OK to own guns? If you believe that felons should not be allowed to own guns, then you are OK with a little infringement. If you believe in the literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, then you are OK with gang members and crazy people walking around with guns. There simply must be some level of "infringement" and control.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

It's constitutional to restrict felons under the 14 Ammendment after due process.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:34 PM   #9
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I should clarify my previous comments by saying I see gun control laws versus people control laws; certain people should not be allowed to own firearms but don't mess around with my magazines, my adjustable stock, my pistol grip or how many firearms I can have. Don't try to make me register my fire arms or my ammunition purchases or restrict my access to certain types or brands of firearms because of what you think is safe. God, I'm glad I don't live in California anymore.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:07 PM   #10
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Someone misuses a gun and the answer is to punish all the good people that haven't done anything wrong. Why, because they can pass all the laws in the world and the bad guys will just ignore them so to feel like they've accomplished something they punish the good people that they know will abide by their law.... works for me
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