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Old 05-11-2019, 10:31 AM   #1
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Caliber debate

This video is worth the time to watch from beginning to end.



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Old 05-12-2019, 09:09 PM   #2
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...okay, back to caliber arguments.

...bad guy, is wearing a T shirt .32, 9mm, or .357 will all get the job done.
...bad guy wearing a winter jacket? Although I don't own a .357 I'm thinking that'd be best option? Am I wrong?
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:11 PM   #3
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headshot doesn't care
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Shootinit View Post
headshot doesn't care

Yeah but ….. placing a head shot in a life threatening, near panic situations is not all that easy. Center mass is a much better target with less chance of sending an errant shot down range. It's much easier for the bad guy to move his head than his body.

I liked the video and I get it. Gel is a consistent medium for testing bullet performance but then, as Cuz is suggesting, bad guys are rarely consistent. Shooting through a tee shirt and shooting through a heavy leather jacket are going to produce different results regardless of caliber.

I think the solution to "what caliber" is simply to carry the gun you shoot the best. And "will" carry. For me I know I can and will carry my 642 Airweight anywhere, anytime. And with some of the new modern self defense ammo I'm happy with it. I also know that if I was trying to carry a full frame 1911 or 4" .357 there would be a time I would be temped to leave it at home or in the car. I'd say … pick a gun, pick a caliber, practice, train, practice and carry it.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:28 PM   #5
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Two main takeaways from the vid.

A. Handgun bullets (regardless of caliber) traveling less than 2,200fps generally do not surpass the human tissue elasticity threshold. So when the bullet bypasses an organ there is generally no organic damage as there is with bullets exceeding velocities of 2,200fps. The conclusion here is that measured foot pounds of energy differences between typical handgun calibers are "washed away" in the real world.

B. Two key factors for manufacturing handgun ammo are adequate penetration and bullet expands as designed.

While watching the vid I remembered Greg Ellifritz's study of real world shootings. His conclusions dovetailed with the vid-- Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important. https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:43 PM   #6
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If it does not penetrate cloths it will still get their attention...slap on a bpv and try it.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Two main takeaways from the vid.

A. Handgun bullets (regardless of caliber) traveling less than 2,200fps generally do not surpass the human tissue elasticity threshold.
This is very interesting, I've never actually heard this put into these exact numbers before. Interesting because I have a few boxes of Liberty Civil Defense, 50grn, .357 mag. They're factory rated at 2100 fps from a 4" barrel. Soooo … wonder what they'll hit coming out of my 8" 586 ?

Maybe I should just start packin' the big L-frame. Probably not appendix carry tho …. but I do have a shoulder holster for it.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:56 PM   #8
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....and I like bacon!

Enough rounds to put him down seems to add much more of a chance. So when all else fails!
Empty mag, reload, still coming? Empty again and start over. Still coming? Find someone that runs slower than you.

If you practice head/face shots at lets say 8 yards, you’ll notice center mass is not that much bigger, (6-8”)... I practice nothing but face shots. Why face? My laser target is about that size. So like Chico says. Mozambique it!


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Old 05-13-2019, 03:28 PM   #9
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My new EDC …. I'm going for "right between the eyes" …
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by PaulWVa View Post
This is very interesting, I've never actually heard this put into these exact numbers before. Interesting because I have a few boxes of Liberty Civil Defense, 50grn, .357 mag. They're factory rated at 2100 fps from a 4" barrel. Soooo … wonder what they'll hit coming out of my 8" 586 ?
Depends on how much powder hasn't yet been burned at 4in. My guess is that you'd easily cross that 2200fps threshold... but I think you could fudge with the 2100fps and call it good enough. That's smokin!

A light 110gr Cor Bon .357 from a 4in barrel has a velocity of 1286fps. 1600fps from an 8in barrel. This is a good collection of information to poke around. BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .357 Mag Results

My Marlin 1894 .357 with an 18in barrel yields about a 30% increase in velocity.
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