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Old 05-27-2019, 08:44 AM   #1
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Preserving our 2A

I believe our right to keep and bear arms, as memorialized in the second amendment, preserves itself as well as all of our other rights and liberties. It has for the past 243 years and will until we voluntarily give it up. A government that doesn't trust me to own firearms is not one that I trust.
We had a good discussion going on the wrong thread so here's an opportunity to continue the discussion.
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:02 AM   #2
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"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty."
-John Basil Barnhill

Not Jeffersonian, not about the 2A, often misrepresented as both. That said, two things can be true at once, and it certainly does work; so I've always had a soft spot for Alan Moore doing just that with it in V for Vendetta, which is turning out to be nearly as prescent across the pond as 1984 was.
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:04 AM   #3
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My position is that right to keep and bear arms is a God-given inalienable right that the 2A both recognizes as well as forbids government infringement upon.

Absent that understanding, one is left with the notion that the right to keep and bear arms is government-given and may be infringed upon at the whim of government or tyranny of the majority as we have recently seen in western coastal states where the people regularly surrender their liberty for the promise of safety...
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:15 AM   #4
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When the majority in a state, through their elected representatives and lawmakers, enforce their anti-2A attitudes and your vote really doesn't count for anything it's time to move. I left Massachusetts in 1974 for California. I left California in 1994 to go to Montana. This is the "last best place" for me and where I take my last stand.
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:56 AM   #5
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-...113555408.html

Sounds like a new ploy from the left on how to attack 2A. "Let's update it" - once that door is open, there's no closing it.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:25 AM   #6
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I left Maryland for North Carolina 15 years ago and have never looked back. I belong to a great gun club and have great friends there, 20 minutes from the beach where I live. I have a LGS less than a mile away owned by a guy who grew up in Baltimore at the same time I did. What more can an old guy ask?
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:10 PM   #7
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Tennessee was very restrictive 30 years ago, particularly concerning handgun carry. We've come a long way and are still on a pro-gun trajectory. Much to fix including adoption of Constitutional Carry.

Below is an excerpt from Tennessee Firearms Association-- It will give you an idea of just how FUBAR things were regarding handgun carry, and the struggle to get where we are today.

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Prior to 1989, Tennessee was a limited “open carry” state. Tennessee’s open carry law was limited to “army or navy” pistols but only if such pistols were carried openly in the hand. The statute did not allow citizens to holster the weapons or to carry these types of pistols concealed. A person would have to become a special deputy or receive a special police commission in order carry a handgun that did not fit the “army or navy” designation. These commissions were also necessary if the individual wanted to carry the weapon concealed or holstered.

In 1989, Tennessee overhauled its handgun carry laws to provide that sheriffs “may issue” a handgun carry permit to authorize “any person” to carry a handgun. This change in the law allowed a sheriff to issue handgun carry permits without having to make the person a special deputy or officer. Although the 1989 law authorized a sheriff to issue handgun carry permits there were problems. First, it did not require the sheriff to issue civilian permits. Second, the permits were only good in the county in which they were issued.

The Adoption of a “shall issue” standard

In May 1994 the Tennessee Legislature meagerly addressed the desire of the citizens to carry firearms. Although the Tennessee Legislature attempted to liberalize the laws regarding the issuance of handgun carry permits and to address other problems which had been recognized since the passage of the 1989 law, it failed to adequately do so.

With the passage of the 1994 law, Tennessee went from a “may issue” state to a “shall issue” state. As a “shall issue” law, the law seemingly required the chief law enforcement officer to issue a handgun carry permit to an applicant, who was otherwise qualified to own a handgun in the state, unless the chief law enforcement officer believed “for good cause and in the exercise of reasonable discretion” that the applicant should not be issued a handgun carry permit.

With the increase in the number of citizens applying for handgun permits after the 1994 law went into effect, several problems began to surface under the 1994 law. These problems generally related to the fact that the law authorized the chief law enforcement officer of each county to issue handgun carry permits to the residents of that county, but it did very little to regulate or standardize the handgun permitting process. With 95 counties, Tennessee had different interpretations of the law and permitting processes. Consequently, the applications, application fees, background checks and even the probability of obtaining a permit varied widely by county.

Because of the significant inconsistencies with the implementation of the 1994 handgun carry law by the chief law enforcement officers of the various counties, various bills were introduced in 1995 and 1996 in the Tennessee Legislature to standardize the handgun permitting process. Finally, in April 1996, the Legislature passed the 1996 law which transferred the responsibility for issuing handgun carry permits from the county level to the Department of Safety. The 1996 law also standardized the permitting process to be the same application process and fee structure statewide.

The 1996 law went into effect October 1, 1996. During the two year period from October 1, 1994, through September 30, 1996, it is estimated that approximately 7,000 handgun permits had been issued in Tennessee at the county level. On October 1, 1996, the floodgates opened. With reduced fees, the elimination of the bonding requirement, and a permitting process no longer subject to 95 different interpretations, the citizens rushed to apply for handgun carry permits. However within only a few months, it once again became evident there were serious problems with the state’s interpretation and administration of the 1996 law.

By January 1997 it was apparent that what should have been a relatively simple process and what is a relatively simple process in most other states was not working in Tennessee. Fingerprint cards were being returned and redone because they were unclassifiable (e.g., smudged prints). Computerized background checks were being rejected because applicants would have arrest and criminal histories with open dispositions. Chief law enforcement officers either were not responding timely to the requests for background checks and/or were qualifying their responses to these background checks. Thus, even in instances where an applicant had a completely clean criminal record, testimony before the Tennessee House Judiciary Committee in early 1997 reflected that it could have easily taken from 9 months to more than a year to complete the application process.

In February and March 1997, the Tennessee House Judiciary Committee conducted extensive hearings in an effort to determine what was wrong with the handgun permitting system that the Tennessee Legislature created less than a year before. As a result of those hearings, the Tennessee Legislature passed yet more legislation in 1997 in an effort to eliminate the delays in issuing the civilian handgun carry permits. By virtue of the 1997 law, Tennessee became a “leading issuance” state similar to what had existed in Florida.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:17 PM   #8
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There was a good reason the Founding Fathers took the time to add the Amendments to the Constitution. What has happened before, during and after our 2016 election is the prime example. Corrupt, misguided and thuggish members of our Government trying to invalidate the election results of a POTUS!

What happened to the Trump Presidency is the same thing that Maduro did to Juan Guaidó in Venezuela except that Obama didn't refuse to handover the Government to Trump. He and his cronies instead set in place a plan to try to disqualify and cripple the new Administration...…..all because his preferred successor did not succeed in getting the outcome that the Dem/Progressive/Socialist/Radicals desired! Simple as that IMO!

It was subversion of our Democratic process and no less tyrannical than Maduro. That, my friends, is why we need our 2nd Amendment rights and the Founding Fathers could see that possibility coming 200 plus years ago! The penalties for the culprits should be severe IMO!

This still isn't over and we may still need them! Not how I thought of my retirement years. JMHO
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:24 PM   #9
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Was working as an RSO yesterday at my gun club and had couple from Maryland visit. They wanted to become members because they have a vacation home here and visit frequently (and annual membership is $50). Since we ask for ID with the membership info, they both handed over Maryland CC permits. I had never seen one and knows no one who has one in spite of the fact that most of my relatives still live there.

I asked about the process and they explained they owned a retail business and the fine print on the back of their permits said it was only valid while they were engaging in the pursuit of their business. They also explained the timeline, cost and awful process they had to go through to get the limited permits.

I'm so glad I moved to a gun friendly state!
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:05 PM   #10
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Exercising our 2A Rights in the great state of Michigan. Backyard range with my youngest Son and Granddaughter.
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