Pretty good advice; hope I never need it - Kimber Forum

Kimber


Go Back   Kimber Forum > Off Topic Area > Off-Topic Discussion Forum

Like Tree26Likes
  • 16 Post By DaveinNC
  • 1 Post By slanted
  • 1 Post By Edibrook
  • 1 Post By motormac
  • 2 Post By Chief1200
  • 2 Post By Shootinit
  • 3 Post By DaveinNC
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2019, 08:47 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
DaveinNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 2,891
Pretty good advice; hope I never need it

Don't know the source.

I hope none of you ever experience this, but if you do, these hints may keep you alive.

Mass Shooting Hints

Here are a handful of considerations on what to do if you find yourself in a mass shooting. My opinion comes from decades as a cop, a couple years at war, and my experiences teaching active shooter response to cops for a few years.
1) Look for the easiest accessible *safer* place. In a place like Walmart there are multiple doors leading to back areas, stockrooms, freezers, etc. Every store or restaurant in a mall has an employees-only back area. Don't stampede with the crowd toward the main exits unless you're absolutely sure it's clear; mass shooters are looking for clumps of people to kill, so getting into a group makes you a more attractive target.
2) Remember that you're going to experience survival stress reactions like tunnel vision, auditory exclusion (you literally stop hearing), and critical incident amnesia (you forget major things that you just saw). Don't think that just because you gave your wife, children, or boyfriend clear instructions like "Run this way!" they heard or understood you. In a critical, lethal, dynamic, high-stress incident, your perception can become seriously flawed. This goes double if you're untrained or inexperienced.
3) In a critical incident about 75% of the population will experience "normalcy bias"; they'll see something insane happening right in front of them (like a guy walking into Walmart with an AK), and convince themselves that it has to be something normal. "Oh, he must be coming in to buy BBs for that airsoft gun," or something like that. Normalcy bias increases reaction time and can get you killed.
4) If you don't know exactly where the shooter is, don't blindly run for your life to get away. A better option might be to run to a covered or concealed spot, take a look around, choose the next spot, sprint to that, assess, choose the next spot, and so on, until you reach safety.
5) Do not assume that every mass shooter is an absolutely unstoppable Delta Force SEAL ninja. Most mass shooters are unskilled, untrained cowards who can operate a weapon and kill defenseless people, but can't and don't want to fight. Mass shooters tend to fold as soon as they face resistance. Many mass shooters have stopped their attacks because their weapons malfunctioned and they had no idea how to clear them. One of the Columbine shooters even managed to break his own nose when he fired a pistol grip shotgun at a victim. These people are murderous cowards, not brave warriors.
6) Mass shooters tend to show terrible situational awareness because they think they own the place until police show up. Their heads aren't on a swivel looking for threats, all their focus is on the victims they're hunting. The kind of guy who believes he's in complete control and enjoys murdering defenseless victims tends to get very upset if he's unexpectedly shot in the back of the head. So upset him.
7) If you carry a firearm, remember that if the shooter attacks and you're in his sights, you *have to* immediately fight back. If you're far enough away that you hear shots and screams but aren't under immediate threat, you *can* advance on the shooter and fight back. You decide what's best, but keep in mind that the best defense is a good offense.
8) If you choose to engage the shooter/shooters, take a moment to assess what you're up against. Do you hear multiple weapons, suggesting multiple attackers? Does the gunfire sound like it's from a large-caliber rifle, or .22 pistol? Is the shooter firing so fast that even with a drum magazine he'll have to change mags soon? Do you hear the attackers yelling anything? You might respond differently to a shooter slowly firing a .22 pistol and yelling "Where is she?" than to a shooter blasting rounds from an AK while shrieking "You will all die, traitors!" At least, I'd respond a little differently.
9) If you choose to engage, try not to go head to head. Maneuver. Flank. Circle around. Surprise him.
10) Stay low. There's a reason soldiers instinctively crouch when moving under fire: most people, especially untrained people, and especially untrained people firing fast, tend to shoot high.
11) Remember that all of us tend to search at head/eye level. The shooter probably won't notice the guy on the ground leaning out from behind a cooler pointing a pistol at him.
12) If you're going to engage, you have to close distance. Concealed carriers and off-duty cops generally carry a small or medium-sized pistol, often with no spare ammo. You're probably not going to put a mass shooter down with six rounds from your .380 from 90 yards away.
13) On that note, and I don't care what you hear from others, CARRY SPARE AMMO. No, you don't need it for typical defensive firearm use, but a mass shooting isn't typical. If you expect to fight, carry ammo to sustain a fight.
14) If you put down the shooter, do a fast threat scan for secondary shooters and then put your weapon away. If at all possible, DO NOT have a weapon in your hands when officers arrive.
15) Remember that any form of resistance can save lives. If you shoot at him and miss but stop him from advancing on potential victims, you've saved lives. If you miss and he runs away, you've saved lives. If you miss but force him into a restricted area and he stays there because you're covering the exit, you've saved lives.
That's all for now, maybe I'll post more later. We cops, armed citizens, and good decent Americans are all in this together; let's flip the script on mass shooters, make them scared, and put them down the moment they try to live out their murderous, cowardly fantasies.
Stay safe, and stay ready to defend yourselves, your families and your fellow citizens.
__________________
NRA Benefactor member, Grass Roots North Carolina member, Lifelong Deplorable.
DaveinNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 09-10-2019, 09:13 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
slanted's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 594
Great info Dave!
motormac likes this.
__________________
"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway"
The Duke
slanted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 09:16 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 25
Nice Info
motormac likes this.
Edibrook is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 09-10-2019, 10:49 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
motormac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by DaveinNC View Post
Don't know the source.

I hope none of you ever experience this, but if you do, these hints may keep you alive.

Mass Shooting Hints

Here are a handful of considerations on what to do if you find yourself in a mass shooting. My opinion comes from decades as a cop, a couple years at war, and my experiences teaching active shooter response to cops for a few years.
1) Look for the easiest accessible *safer* place. In a place like Walmart there are multiple doors leading to back areas, stockrooms, freezers, etc. Every store or restaurant in a mall has an employees-only back area. Don't stampede with the crowd toward the main exits unless you're absolutely sure it's clear; mass shooters are looking for clumps of people to kill, so getting into a group makes you a more attractive target.
2) Remember that you're going to experience survival stress reactions like tunnel vision, auditory exclusion (you literally stop hearing), and critical incident amnesia (you forget major things that you just saw). Don't think that just because you gave your wife, children, or boyfriend clear instructions like "Run this way!" they heard or understood you. In a critical, lethal, dynamic, high-stress incident, your perception can become seriously flawed. This goes double if you're untrained or inexperienced.
3) In a critical incident about 75% of the population will experience "normalcy bias"; they'll see something insane happening right in front of them (like a guy walking into Walmart with an AK), and convince themselves that it has to be something normal. "Oh, he must be coming in to buy BBs for that airsoft gun," or something like that. Normalcy bias increases reaction time and can get you killed.
4) If you don't know exactly where the shooter is, don't blindly run for your life to get away. A better option might be to run to a covered or concealed spot, take a look around, choose the next spot, sprint to that, assess, choose the next spot, and so on, until you reach safety.
5) Do not assume that every mass shooter is an absolutely unstoppable Delta Force SEAL ninja. Most mass shooters are unskilled, untrained cowards who can operate a weapon and kill defenseless people, but can't and don't want to fight. Mass shooters tend to fold as soon as they face resistance. Many mass shooters have stopped their attacks because their weapons malfunctioned and they had no idea how to clear them. One of the Columbine shooters even managed to break his own nose when he fired a pistol grip shotgun at a victim. These people are murderous cowards, not brave warriors.
6) Mass shooters tend to show terrible situational awareness because they think they own the place until police show up. Their heads aren't on a swivel looking for threats, all their focus is on the victims they're hunting. The kind of guy who believes he's in complete control and enjoys murdering defenseless victims tends to get very upset if he's unexpectedly shot in the back of the head. So upset him.
7) If you carry a firearm, remember that if the shooter attacks and you're in his sights, you *have to* immediately fight back. If you're far enough away that you hear shots and screams but aren't under immediate threat, you *can* advance on the shooter and fight back. You decide what's best, but keep in mind that the best defense is a good offense.
8) If you choose to engage the shooter/shooters, take a moment to assess what you're up against. Do you hear multiple weapons, suggesting multiple attackers? Does the gunfire sound like it's from a large-caliber rifle, or .22 pistol? Is the shooter firing so fast that even with a drum magazine he'll have to change mags soon? Do you hear the attackers yelling anything? You might respond differently to a shooter slowly firing a .22 pistol and yelling "Where is she?" than to a shooter blasting rounds from an AK while shrieking "You will all die, traitors!" At least, I'd respond a little differently.
9) If you choose to engage, try not to go head to head. Maneuver. Flank. Circle around. Surprise him.
10) Stay low. There's a reason soldiers instinctively crouch when moving under fire: most people, especially untrained people, and especially untrained people firing fast, tend to shoot high.
11) Remember that all of us tend to search at head/eye level. The shooter probably won't notice the guy on the ground leaning out from behind a cooler pointing a pistol at him.
12) If you're going to engage, you have to close distance. Concealed carriers and off-duty cops generally carry a small or medium-sized pistol, often with no spare ammo. You're probably not going to put a mass shooter down with six rounds from your .380 from 90 yards away.
13) On that note, and I don't care what you hear from others, CARRY SPARE AMMO. No, you don't need it for typical defensive firearm use, but a mass shooting isn't typical. If you expect to fight, carry ammo to sustain a fight.
14) If you put down the shooter, do a fast threat scan for secondary shooters and then put your weapon away. If at all possible, DO NOT have a weapon in your hands when officers arrive.
15) Remember that any form of resistance can save lives. If you shoot at him and miss but stop him from advancing on potential victims, you've saved lives. If you miss and he runs away, you've saved lives. If you miss but force him into a restricted area and he stays there because you're covering the exit, you've saved lives.
That's all for now, maybe I'll post more later. We cops, armed citizens, and good decent Americans are all in this together; let's flip the script on mass shooters, make them scared, and put them down the moment they try to live out their murderous, cowardly fantasies.
Stay safe, and stay ready to defend yourselves, your families and your fellow citizens.
We had practiced active shooter drills at work. Most people in the US are civilians without any experience or training, so I understand the reasoning. A ranger, from 'Nam '72, quietly, to me, disagreed to me, that what is being instilled in the training goes against what he learned early in his career. He runs to the situation, using these hints, to rid all of the problem. My training, also, dictates using these hints. I have poor night vision, but night exercises in the mountains had shown me what is required from my perspective. We ran night patrols, ambushes, E&E courses, etc. We weren't allowed to carry at work, and I got to work in some nasty neighborhoods in the big city, which made me wonder. I did not have any issues, but I was wary, and I tried to stay for as short a time as I could to complete my task. One thing, that I had learned about the big city police, is to make certain that you are chambered, and ready to go in any situation. First thing that the police do is make you remove the magazine. Then, they check to see if you have a round chambered. If not chambered, then you may be detained at your own peril. Mind you, this is accomplished, while you are on the ground, with a huge shoe on your neck. Not all situations are like this one, but it does happen. Depends on the police officer, and his needs.
Thank you for this valuable information.
speedydg13 likes this.
motormac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 09:44 AM   #5
Member
 
Chief1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 45
Well said Dave! It is a proven statistical fact that the majority of mass shootings end when a second firearm arrives. Good talking points!
wayne and motormac like this.
Chief1200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 09:53 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Shootinit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,799
if it's wearing armor, aim high or low.
wayne and motormac like this.
Shootinit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 03:51 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
DaveinNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 2,891
Funny you should mention that. One of our guys took a bullet in the gut when a moron shot through a door. The bullet nicked his abdominal aorta; he's still walking around, but it took 50 units of blood to make that happen.

Lucky he was there with a partner.
Bigdog, wayne and motormac like this.
__________________
NRA Benefactor member, Grass Roots North Carolina member, Lifelong Deplorable.
DaveinNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On