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When did we lose our way?

3K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  Chuck43 
#1 ·
When did we lose our way and stop electing presidents like this that respected and supported our military?


 
#2 ·
Spoken by a man who never saw combat, and never left the shores of the United States while in uniform, probably just like the speechwriter who wrote the words he is uttering

"Reagan was ordered to active duty for the first time on April 18, 1942. Due to his poor eyesight, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas. His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as a liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office. Upon the approval of the Army Air Force (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the cavalry to the AAF on May 15, 1942, and was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the First Motion Picture Unit (officially, the "18th Army Air Force Base Unit") in Culver City, California. On January 14, 1943, he was promoted to first lieutenant and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California. He returned to the First Motion Picture Unit after completing this duty and was promoted to captain on July 22, 1943.

In January 1944, Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the Sixth War Loan Drive. He was reassigned to the First Motion Picture Unit on November 14, 1944, where he remained until the end of World War II. He was recommended for promotion to major on February 2, 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year. While with the First Motion Picture Unit in 1945, he was indirectly involved in discovering actress Marilyn Monroe. He returned to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on December 9, 1945. By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the AAF.

Reagan never left the United States during the war, though he kept a film reel, obtained while in the service, depicting the liberation of Auschwitz, as he believed that someday doubts would arise as to whether the Holocaust had occurred. It has been alleged that he was overheard telling Israeli foreign minister Yitzhak Shamir in 1983 that he had filmed that footage himself and helped liberate Auschwitz, though this purported conversation was disputed by Secretary of State George Shultz."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan#Military_service

Poor eyesight? I don't seem to recall many pictures of Reagan wearing glasses . . .

"First Motion Picture Unit"? How heroic . . .

While he was bumping elbows with Marilyn Monroe my friends and relatives were fighting and dying in Europe, Africa and the Pacific. Sorry -- I am not impressed.
 
#3 · (Edited)
There isn't any perfect people in this world. Including all of us. It doesn't matter to me if Regan went to war or not. He served our country as Commander and Chief and I have a lot of respect for him. He loved our Country and did support and respect our Military. Regan damn sure had more Character and morals than the people we have running for office now. Thank you for the video Chuck.
 
#4 ·
Richard, why do you have to do this shit, it's not about what he did in the service but the respect and support he's shown to the military and the country while he was our president. Have you ever seen a picture of Regan holding his crotch while the pledge of allegiance was being given?

Personally the impression I get from a majority of your posts is that you're against any kind of military action and your primary concern is that your social security check and medicare benefits keep coming. 95% of your posts are agrumentive, seriously what's your problem?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Well, Chuck, have you ever seen any President holding his crotch while the pledge of allegiance was being given? Did you pull that out of your butt?

I voted for Reagan twice. He might have been a good, or even great, President, but that doesn't qualify him to pontificate about the military. He is as phony in that regard as John Wayne. Meanwhile, there were, and are, real American heroes who served their country on foreign shores. How come nobody ever tells us what they have to say? Oh, wait! I understand. Hollywood!

BTW, I am a veteran, and anybody who can read at a third grade level, and who has followed my posts on this forum, would know that. So where do you get off judging my relationship with the military? You couldn't possibly be further off-base. Just because I'm not dumb enough to believe everything I read and hear doesn't mean that you can categorize me. You can't.

I served my country honorably. So did most of the males in my family, including my brother, my father, five of my uncles, two brothers-in-law and several cousins. One of my uncles never returned from France, and another became permanently disabled in North Africa. One of my cousins left a part of his liver in Vietnam. So where do you get off trying to tell me how I feel about the military. You are out of line, Chuck, but I'll chalk it up to you having a bad day, and hold no hard feelings.

Here, learn what Reagan really thought about the military and its veterans: "WASHINGTON, Dec. 26 (1985)- President Reagan's draft budget for the fiscal year 1987 would cut spending on veterans' health care benefits by reducing the number of people treated and, for the first time, by requiring insurance companies to help pay the costs."

U.S. HEALTH CARE FOR VETERANS CUT IN BUDGET DRAFT - NYTimes.com

Remember, this was at a time when we still had a great many Vietnam-era veterans who needed assistance.
 
#10 ·
Reagan did more for the war effort doing what he does best, then serving in a combat arms unit. He never claimed to be a great warrior, just a great patriot.

I served as a trigger puller, that was my job. Many others have served in military specialties were your main job is not pulling a trigger. That does not mean thier jobs are not important, it's the combined efforts of everyone doing thier job to the best of thier abilities that wins wars.

What we are severely lacking today is the politicions doing thier job. I never trust a politicion who has never served. It's not about being a war hero, it's about doing your part.
 
#11 ·
Chuck, thanks for the incredibly patriotic and inspiring video. As to the title of your thread, I agree so profoundly, "When did we lose our way?" Reagan was a great president, leader and inspiration to this nation. There will always be those who need to politicize and find a negative, as we all have negatives, however, it is the light that history shines on us that exposes the truth. Thanks again, Chuck, with all the crap I have been hearing on the news this week, I needed and appreciate that dose of inspiration and patriotism!
 
#14 · (Edited)
Who insinuated liberal warriors were not worthy of a blessing? Or less worthy. If you are insinuating my "liberals only respect liberals" comment justifies your remarks then you have a problem reading between the lines, sir. I don't see any other comments about liberals but mine so I am going to assume your comment was directed toward me. Let me spell it out for you so you will totally understand since your are obviously struggling. Chuck puts up an awesome patriotic video and Richard has to try his best to discredit the President and the video. My comment was directed to Richard not liberal warriors. You got it now? I know better than to talk to liberal.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Well, Glock, since you seem to be determined to engage in name-calling, here goes. You sound like an ill-informed RINO. I was a registered Republican for more than 30 years. I was a contributing member of two Republican PACs. That's money I am talking about. Have you contributed any money to conservative causes, or are you just a big mouth in an empty head?

I have supported Republican causes and candidates in two states: Illinois and California. I was a registered Republican in Nevada. I voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964. I voted twice for Richard Nixon. I voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980 and again in 1984. I voted for George H. W. Bush. I supported John McCain in the 2000 California Republican primary. How dare you call me a liberal? You know nothing about me, or about anything else, for that matter.

This post is going to be long, but if you want to know the truth about the man you worship, then you will read the whole thing. If you choose to remain ignorant, then that is a choice that you have made, and I can do nothing to inform you because you prefer the darkness of ignorance over the light of knowledge.

Reagan might have been a good President in many respects, but he tried his damnedest to screw veterans out of their benefits. I already posted a link to the story from the New York Times. Did you even read it?

In 1983, on Reagan's watch, Islamic terrorists bombed the US Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, killing 63 people. Seventeen of them were Americans. A couple of months later, terrorists bombed the United States Marine barracks in Lebanon, killing 241 American service members. They simultaneously bombed a French military facility killing 58 members of the French military. This was the beginning of the war on terrorism, and the enemy had fired the first shots. I didn't need to look up these incidents on the Internet because I remember them. But you can read all about them here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

How did the French respond? They launched airstrikes in the Beqaa Valley. What did the United States do? Nothing! Our President elected to cut and run. He eventually pulled all of the Marines out of Lebanon, and we have seen what has happened in the Middle East since that time. How is that kind of inaction considered to be looking out for our military? Would George H. W. Bush have done that? Did George W. Bush do that after 9/11? Which of these Presidents was the real courageous leader?

"Eventually, it became evident that the U.S. would launch no serious and immediate retaliatory attack for the Beirut Marine barracks bombing beyond naval barrages and air strikes used to interdict continuous harassing fire from Druze and Syrian missile and artillery sites. A true retaliatory strike failed to materialize because there was a rift in White House counsel (largely between George P. Shultz of the Department of State and Weinberger of the Department of Defense) and because the extant evidence pointing at Iranian involvement was circumstantial at that time: the Islamic Jihad, which took credit for the attack, was a front for Hezbollah which was acting as a proxy for Iran; thus, affording Iran plausible deniability." [ibid]​

Islamic terrorists learned an important lesson from Reagan, a lesson that they put into play on September 11, 2001. They learned that the United States Government was weak, soft, and unwilling to hold them to account. They decided right then and there that America was a nation of cowards and weaklings. Keep in mind that Reagan also had the power to retaliate against Iran for the 444-day hostage crisis, but he did nothing. That encouraged the Iranians to sponsor the bombings in Lebanon, and to continue to sponsor terrorism all across the globe.

Wait! There's more! On December 12 of that same year (1983) the American Embassy in Kuwait city was bombed by terrorists. Did Reagan respond? No.

"The American embassy in Kuwait was bombed in a series of attacks whose targets also included the French embassy, the control tower at the airport, the country's main oil refinery, and a residential area for employees of the American corporation Raytheon. Six people were killed, including a suicide truck bomber, and more than 80 others were injured. The suspects were thought to be members of Al Dawa, or "The Call," an Iranian-backed group and one of the principal Shiite groups operating against Saddam Hussein in Iraq.​

The U.S. military took no action in retaliation. In Kuwait, 17 people were arrested and convicted for participating in the attacks. One of those convicted was Mustafa Youssef Badreddin, a cousin and brother-in-law of one of Hezbollah's senior officers, Imad Mughniyah. After a six-week trial in Kuwait, Badreddin was sentenced to death for his role in the bombings.​

Over the following years, the arrest and imprisonment of the "Kuwait 17" (also known as the "Al Dawa 17"), became one of the most consistent demands of the kidnappers of Western hostages in Lebanon and plane hijackers.​

Ironically, when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, the Iraqis unwittingly released the imprisoned Badreddin and the remaining members of the Kuwait 17. Press reports vary about Badreddin's current whereabouts." Terrorist Attacks On Americans, 1979-1988 | Target America | FRONTLINE | PBS

Reagan had sent the terrorists a powerful message: "You can kill Americans with impunity because their government will do nothing in response."

Then, in 1984, Iranian-backed terrorists kidnapped CIA Station Chief William Buckley in Beirut. He wasn't the first, nor would he be the last American to be kidnapped by Islamic terrorists in the Middle East on Reagan's watch. In all, at least 30 Westerners were kidnapped in Lebanon, and some of them were either killed, or died in captivity, including Buckley. How did our President respond? He cut a secret deal with the terrorists. He sent weapons to the people who were killing our service members and citizens. It later came to be known as the Iran-Contra Affair, the biggest scandal of Reagan's Presidency.

"U.S. officials believed that the Iranian-backed Hezbollah was behind most of the kidnappings and the Reagan administration devised a covert plan. Iran was desperately running out of military supplies in its war with Iraq, but Congress had banned the sale of American arms to countries like Iran that sponsored terrorism. Reagan was advised that a bargain could be struck -- secret arms sales to Iran, hostages back to the U.S. The plan, when it was revealed to the public, was decried as a failure and anathema to the U.S. policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists." [ibid]​

Our fearless leader showed his support for the military again a couple of months later:

"In Aukar, northeast of Beirut, a truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. Embassy annex killing 24 people, two of whom were U.S. military personnel. According to the U.S. State Department's 1999 report on terrorist organizations, elements of Hezbollah are "known or suspected to have been involved" in the bombing.​

The U.S. mounted no military response to the embassy annex bombing, but it did begin to explore covert operations in Lebanon. Investigative journalist Bob Woodward says that the CIA trained foreign intelligence agents to act as "hit teams" designed to destroy the terrorists' operations. Ambassador Robert Oakley says the U.S. merely attempted to set up a "protective unit," a Lebanese counterterrorist strike force.​

President Reagan and the CIA called off covert operations when Lebanese intelligence operatives -- some allegedly trained by the U.S. -- set off a car bomb on March 8, 1985, in an attempted murder of Sheik Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, the Shiite Muslim cleric who some believed to be the spiritual leader of Hezbollah. Over 80 people were killed in the attack near a Beirut mosque. Fadlallah survived." [ibid]​

But wait! It continues!

December 3, 1984: "Kuwait Airways Flight 221, on its way from Kuwait to Pakistan, was hijacked and diverted to Tehran. The hijackers demanded the release of the Kuwait 17. When the demand wasn't met, the hijackers killed two American officials from the U.S. Agency for International Development." [ibid]

June 14, 1985: "TWA Flight 847 was hijacked en route from Athens to Rome and forced to land in Beirut, Lebanon, where the hijackers held the plane for 17 days. They demanded the release of the Kuwait 17 as well as the release of 700 fellow Shiite Muslim prisoners held in Israeli prisons and in prisons in southern Lebanon run by the Israeli-backed South Lebanon Army. When these demands weren't met, hostage Robert Dean Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, was shot and his body dumped on the airport tarmac. U.S. sources implicated Hezbollah." [ibid]​

October, 1985 - January, 1986: "On Oct. 7, 1985, off the coast of Egypt, four gunmen hijacked the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro and demanded the release of Palestinian prisoners in Egypt, Italy, and elsewhere. When the demands weren't met, they killed Leon Klinghoffer, a 69-year-old disabled American tourist. Investigators blamed the Palestine Liberation Front, which some believed to be allied with Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization. Later, U.S. officials were able to link Libya to the PLF and the hijacking." [ibid]​

And:

"Then on Dec. 17, 1985, airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, five of whom were Americans." [ibid]​

April 5, 1986: "An American soldier was killed when a bomb was detonated at La Belle, a discotheque in West Berlin known to be popular with off-duty U.S. servicemen." [ibid]

Finally, President Reagan decided to make some sort of response. It took only three years.

"After U.S. intelligence intercepted Libyan government communications implicating Libya in the La Belle disco attack, President Reagan ordered retaliatory air strikes on Tripoli and Benghazi. The operation on April 15, 1986, dubbed Operation El Dorado Canyon, involved 200 aircraft and over 60 tons of bombs. One of the residences of Libyan leader Muammar el-Qadaffi was hit in the attack, which, according to Libyan estimates, killed 37 people and injured 93 others." [ibid]​

Are you keeping score? Have we killed as many Islamic terrorists as they have killed Americans? At any rate, the attack didn't do a lot of good because:

"Two days after the U.S. retaliatory attack, the bodies of three American University of Beirut employees -- American Peter Kilburn and Britons John Douglas and Philip Padfield -- were discovered near Beirut shot to death. The Arab Revolutionary Cells, a pro-Libyan group of Palestinians affiliated with terrorist Abu Nidal, claimed to have executed the three men in retaliation for Operation El Dorado Canyon." [ibid]​

Then, in the last incident of terrorism on President Reagan's watch, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed over Lockerbie, Scotland on December 21, 1988. Do you remember that? Reagan did nothing, and neither did Bush, who succeeded him as President. Have you watched the three-part PBS series "My Brother's Bomber"? One man went to prison for a few years in Scotland and died a hero's death in Libya from Prostate Cancer. Nobody else has ever been punished for this dastardly crime that killed 270 innocent people, 189 of whom were American citizens.

All in all, President Reagan might have "talked the talk," but he certainly didn't "walk the walk." He betrayed members of the American military and its veterans. In my eyes, he might be qualified to talk about a lot of things, but not about his support for our military. Tell me how you can be familiar with his history involving matters of the US military while serving as President of our country and come to a different conclusion.
 
#20 ·
Richard: "So where do you get off judging my relationship with the military?"

No one is "judging your relationship to the military" -- we're "judging your relationship with" the people on this forum -- ESPECIALLY CHUCK! We're pissed that you're badgering Chuck, who works his BUTT off on this forum and does NOT need you, you ass, barking at him and trying to teach him what you think he ought to know! Chuck has NEVER been anything but polite to you -- so back the hell off and stop trying to force everyone/anyone to think the way you do. In all your years of pilot school, and medical school, and law school, and oh yeah, cardiology school, and now you have a graduate degree in HISTORY too?!?! Did you NEVER LEARN how to play nicely with people who do NOT agree with you!?

If what people here think or believe doesn't suit you -- then go the hell away and try to prove to some other group that you know everything about everything and everyone else is wrong! LEAVE CHUCK THE HELL ALONE!!
 
#23 ·
Richard: "So where do you get off judging my relationship with the military?"

No one is "judging your relationship to the military" -- we're "judging your relationship with" the people on this forum -- ESPECIALLY CHUCK! We're pissed that you're badgering Chuck, who works his BUTT off on this forum and does NOT need you, you ass, barking at him and trying to teach him what you think he ought to know! Chuck has NEVER been anything but polite to you -- so back the hell off and stop trying to force everyone/anyone to think the way you do. In all your years of pilot school, and medical school, and law school, and oh yeah, cardiology school, and now you have a graduate degree in HISTORY too?!?! Did you NEVER LEARN how to play nicely with people who do NOT agree with you!?

If what people here think or believe doesn't suit you -- then go the hell away and try to prove to some other group that you know everything about everything and everyone else is wrong! LEAVE CHUCK THE HELL ALONE!!
Hmm . . . I guess you don't read too well, Snowtao. I didn't "badger" Chuck. I voiced my opinion that Ronald Reagan was not qualified to pontificate about our military and its members. I backed up my opinion with facts, which is a whole lot more than you or anybody else has done. Now, if Ronald Reagan was his father or brtother, then I will apologize for being blunt. But if not, then I have as much right as anybody else here to voice my opinions . . . or do you only support the Second Amendment at the expense of the First?

Him?? I wasn't trying to teach "him" anything. I simply pointed out, in response to glockrok's attack on me, that Reagan had a lot to answer for when it came to the troops and the veterans. Now, you, in your insane and stupid attempt to continue glockrok's attack, are trying to shift the discussion to cardiology and law school and pilot school. Just who the hell do you think you are to tell me anything? You are an egotistical twit who is incapable of debating ideas on their merits. You constantly turn any debate into personal attacks, thus displaying your ignorance and driving the thread into lockdown. Perhaps that is your intention, and perhaps it will work. But it certainly lowers the level of discussion on this forum to a juvenile level, and you started it.

Now, I guess you have become the Forum Administrator with the power and authority to tell others to go away and join a different group. How arrogant! With an attitude like that, it's no wonder you haven't learned much in life . . .

You claim to be a veteran. Tell me Snowtao, what has Ronald Reagan done for you? Do it without name-calling -- if you can . . .
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the video Chuck. And just a reminder, not all veterans were on the front line pulling the trigger, some had other duty just as important but not in harms way. Doesn't mean they are any less a veteran and deserve just as much respect. Thank you sir. You can't please everyone, some you can't please at all.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
#28 ·
Hmm . . . Glock, I try to present facts. Facts seem to bother some of the members. I confess that I don't understand why facts are so bothersome to some people. It is a mystery to me. I always prefer facts, and to know the truth about matters, even if those facts and truths don't fit with my preconceived notions. When I am shown to be wrong about something, I acknowledge my errors, and I change my opinions. Is that a bad thing?
 
#30 ·
Guys, I've had a pretty nice couple of days, and I opened today's forum with a PM basket full of anger on reports about this thread. I had no idea this was going on.

Yikes, guys, we're supposed to be friends, supporting each other. And I find myself on unfamiliar ground, that being one of the cooler heads.

Let's back away from this argument. The vets are more important than we are. Getting in the last lick is kind of childish. Let's make peace, perhaps lock up this thread, and hope we do better next year.
 
#31 ·
Instead of going on and on about who was or wasn't a patriot in the past and whether or not their time in the military was "service" or not, we should be worrying about about whether or not we'll survive the next few years....or not! We are going to have the most dangerous period in our countries history in the next year or so.....IMO! With the socialists on their last months, their end game may not be over and it gives me great concern.

Whether you were a "trigger puller" or not doesn't make you a patriot. If the services were all "trigger pullers" then who would fill out all the paperwork??

Heros and patriots know who they are. I did not serve and am not sure if I would be alive today if I had. Even though I didn't care for some of the wars we've participated in, I have great admiration for those who served and did what they had to do for our country!

I thanked vets on Veterans day, whether they saw no action or served in one of the combat zones around the world!

JMHO
 
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