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Old 04-23-2016, 07:02 AM   #1
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Are we responsible for ALL we do?

Had a great conversation with SnowTao yesterday, and I discussed a moral quandary that I've faced before that has resurfaced.

As you know, polishing tools are improving by leaps and bounds, largely because of Ken Schwartz. We have tools now that a togishi could not have even dreamed about. To that, we have blade alloys that were "space age" a scant few years ago.

As 'Snow and I talked about modern society, I remarked that I'd be proud to ultimate-polish a knife for an ops soldier, but with my luck it might be used in a fit of angst. This is not a new position, after all Ranger tomahawks and MAV-C SOG bowie knives date back to the Vietnam War.

I discussed my fear in showing how Hattori Hanzo gave a katana to Beatrix Kiddo in the movie "Kill Bill." It was the best sword he ever made, and he felt equally responsible on just exactly what she did with it. It is a concern I have, as well.

I have a real katana, and I've been toying with the idea of buying a tanto from Blue Ridge and just going "all out" on seeing what I can do--and there's the problem. A tanto is technically just a fixed blade knife, and under normal circumstances, I just sell off experimental knives as "used."

A tanto prepared with tools I already own could remove limbs, and as a result I have never ordered the knife or begun work on the katana.

'Snow and I share opposite sides of the debate. Her position is that evil persists, and if a tanto saves a life it's a "good thing."

I have a gloomier view. Even if sold it for money and it became technically the possession of another person, I somehow feel that the item would still be "mine." As such, I would share a portion of karma and responsibility on where and how that item is used.

As you guys know, I have zero respect for the knife dueler crowd which is perpetuated by periodicals like TK. I would also feel like a hypocrite by cashing in on this insane segment of my sport and interest.

So what's your take? For example, Paul Walker's death was investigated including examination of the automobile that killed him. Are we responsible for the tools we bring into this world?

(Here's my fear. Terrorism will strike in my country, and sooner or later a common citizen is going to beat the bad guys. Filled with adrenaline and righteous anger, the ordinary Joe beheads the ISIS terrorist exclaiming, "You take one of ours, we take one of yours!" In his hand is my tanto...)
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Old 04-23-2016, 07:23 AM   #2
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A lot of over thinking going on here, you need to chill out. Hit the mall and see if any of the mall rats have some MJ you can score.
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Old 04-23-2016, 07:28 AM   #3
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If you sold it to a crazy knowing full well they were crazy I would say that is a different story but you should NOT feel responsible for what others may or may not do. Case in point, is it kimbers fault if someone buys one of their guns and they commit a crime with it?
This reminds me of something I read about the inventory of the AK-47 feeling guilty over all the blood shed his rifle caused.

Too little, too late? Dying Kalashnikov felt guilt over blood spilled by AK-47 | Fox News
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Old 04-23-2016, 07:54 AM   #4
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I take the position that I am a craftsmen. I take pride in the furniture I build, cars I have worked on, etc. I am always proud of the work I do and put my best effort into those things, using the best tools at my disposal (and budget). I know full well they will get broken/misused, etc and cannot control those events.

Knives, and guns, have very specific purposes. In the case you site, a fighting knife, well, the name says it all. If you were to prepare one with the ultimate edge, it would provide an advantage on H2H combat that an opponent might not possess. Now keep in mind, I say both sons K-Bars when they came home and they were beat to hell. They were used for FAR more than H2H combat, so the edges had been restoned frequently. a polished edge (my view) would not last long in the posts some of these live in. I suppose special forces may take a different view of their weapons, so an edge like you are talking might last longer, and certainly be appreciated.

Having said all of that, I go back to my original comment. We are craftsmen, with a specific skill for a tool that is made to do a job. Worrying that it might be mis-used ....

as you said, you would like to do this for a special forces operator, so the odds of your concern occurring are very slim. Quite the opposite I would think.
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Old 04-23-2016, 09:21 AM   #5
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I aim to be non-controversial. Salami has never been controversial, never ever never ever ever never. And it tastes good.
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Old 04-23-2016, 11:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Chuck43 View Post
A lot of over thinking going on here, you need to chill out. Hit the mall and see if any of the mall rats have some MJ you can score.
To be honest never would have thought of this at all, except for the snake-oil salesmen with the cutlery ranks that make their living from this mentality. As I stated, you can find bowie knife fighter trainers with the click of a mouse.

Granted, this is not just a facet of knife collecting, but it does attract the Rambozos in society. I've seen articles where construction companies build and install entire underground prepper complexes. And I mean stuff designed to World War III and nuclear fall-out.

Well, the same whackadoodle who bought one those complexes probably also owns a "First Blood" replica Lile knife and several books by Tappan or Elmore.

Go to a large knife show sometime. You'll meet survivalists and Nazi memorabilia collectors. Then tell me what you think.
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Old 04-23-2016, 11:51 AM   #7
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...just thought of an analogy...

Remember those Christian bakers who refused to do a wedding cake for a gay couple? That was a matter of ethics.

I choose not to associate with the poser-knife-dueler crowd. I'm not the only game in town, lots of hardware stores have knife sharpeners. The Rambozos are free to spend money there.

I sort of like 'Resident's idea. Perhaps I should have chosen selling smoked meats for a retirement business. Yikes, if he decides to go kosher he'll be servicing all of Ken's relatives! LOL
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Old 04-23-2016, 12:53 PM   #8
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Saucisson Sec Salami, the last of the season. Neighbor's let me borrow their Cabelas Electric Food Grinder, so I could get this done.

Life is better with 40+ pounds dry cured meats hanging in the garage canning room. I'm now wiping the chubs daily with a brine solution, to ward off any mold. White Mold is good, other colors maybe not so good.
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Old 04-23-2016, 01:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Tourist View Post
I have zero respect for the knife dueler crowd
There you go again, dawg. On one hand, it's not possible to fight with a knife. On the other, you're losing sleep over whether someone is going to fight with one of your knives :-)

Perhaps Chuck is right, and it's time to sit back, relax, put on your Prince playlist, and clean your guns.


Originally Posted by The Tourist View Post
I have a gloomier view.
That in itself will rob you of precious chi. While your spirit may be infused in every knife you touch, after it leaves your hands, it can neither strengthen or diminish you. Perhaps if your spirit is impeccable enough, the knife will only find its way into the hands of honorable warriors. How about that?
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Old 04-23-2016, 03:37 PM   #10
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'kay, my turn!

Originally Posted by The Tourist View Post
'Snow and I share opposite sides of the debate. Her position is that evil persists, and if a tanto saves a life it's a "good thing."
...
(Here's my fear. Terrorism will strike in my country, and sooner or later a common citizen is going to beat the bad guys. Filled with adrenaline and righteous anger, the ordinary Joe beheads the ISIS terrorist exclaiming, "You take one of ours, we take one of yours!" In his hand is my tanto...)
Eh, not quite Chico but -- in a 2-hour conversation, ( where both people get to speak) -- you've presented only a sliver of my view(s).

Part of my position is that the evil men do is outweighed by the good (those same) men do! (No one is all of one or the other!) (Another part is that the duality of "good and evil" is a false dichotomy: what is "good" from one side is **BAD** (not evil) from the other side!*

If Chico turns a tanto into an even-more excellent weapon that can be used to SAVE someone, it does not 'increase" Chico's good karma. If his more-than excellent tanto is used by some over-wrought regular Joe to slice the head off someone who has just sliced the head off someone of Joe's family, race, tribe, nation (I'm okay with that and) it does not 'decrease' his bad karma. The karma belongs to the now headless ISIS animal AND to the regular Joe.

In neither case is Chico "responsible."

I was going to continue qualifying that -- but it's a complete sentence and a total commitment. I'm with Chuck -- chill out, Chico! (Except for the trip to the mall. I say: get yer butt on line and order the damned tanto!) You are NOT "your brother's keeper," nor his conscience, nor his cause of evil (or good) deeds!

The maker (or sharpener) of the tool is surely 'connected' in a metaphysical sense, as any craftsman is to his creations. But "responsible" for its future use? No. You would take away "agency" from future owners of the tanto? You would have them (metaphorically) sign a contract to never use the blade for (what you might perceive as) 'evil'? You would prevent them from being human, with all the free will and good and bad choices that entails?

Is that in any way your "job" in this world?


Do you think that NOT creating 'return terror' in terrorists is somehow going to work? (Either we kill them ALL** -- or we convince them that the penalty for their terrorist actions is so high they will cease. THEIR choice, which means OUR actions!) I'm of the school that our bullets and knives should be wiped in bacon before use! These terrorists actually HAVE A WORD for mass sexual assault against (our!) women! (Beyond merely rape and torture of individual women (and boys!) -- they actually have a WORD for mass sexual assault!) This was not just hi-jinks or a couple of guys with a bad idea -- they have a WORD and PLAN and an intention to DO this to our women, which intention they are enacting on all over the world -- and "our" media, police, and pols are covering it up! So, I'd rather regular Joe CASTRATED the terrorist first and THEN cut his head off!!

*Old tale I always told my tai chi students:
Long long ago, there was a farmer in a small Chinese village. One day, his stallion kicked down the fence and ran off.

"Oh!" his neighbors said: "that's very bad!"
"Could be good, could be bad," the farmer answered.

The next day the stallion returned with ten beautiful wild mares.

"Oh!" his neighbors said: "that's very good!"
"Could be good, could be bad," the farmer answered.

In a week his son began breaking the mares to saddle, and was thrown off and broke his leg.

"Oh!" his neighbors said: "that's very bad!"
"Could be good, could be bad," the farmer answered.

A week after that, the Chinese army marched into the village and force-marched off all the young men except the farmer's son with his broken leg...
** And I DO mean all! A radical moslem wants to cut your head off. A "moderate" moslem wants the radical moslem to cut your head off! It is NOT a misreading or perversion of the islamic holy books that they ALL will force every human to convert or die. The only exception is dhimmitude -- where you are allowed to "live in subjugation" but you pay a fee (jizya 'tax'), which may include your children being taken for Janissarys or sex slaves (girls or boys!) (Have you read YET that essay I keep pointing you towards? Tet Take Two: Islamís 2016 European Offensive No? Well get to it!


None so blood-thirsty as an awakened woman.
My motto is: Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't!
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