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Not the first time I've been wrong!
 

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"You DON'T really use/EDC/conceal carry your pistol with that hammer "thong" thing on your pistol do you?"

No, I don't. I fasten it back out of the way when carrying in that holster.

I have a Tom Threepersons holster for all my handguns for sentimental reasons - have been using that design for 60+ years.
But I usually carry in one of my more modern holster designs.
 

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I think I've figured this out. I get the same thing only it isn't necessarily associated with a jam - it just dents the bullet nose. And yes it can/does seat the bullet deeper in the case.

The phenomena occurs when I fire the gun with a full magazine. When the slide moves backwards under recoil it brings the barrel back with it about a 1/4 inch. The bottom edge of the ramp smashes into the nose of the bullet with considerable force.

The weird thing is, if I load 7+1, it won't appear on the 2nd cartridge. This is because the way I load the +1. I put a full magazine in, slingshot the slide, drop the magazine and top it off, put the magazine back in. Now since I pushed the top round into the magazine in by hand it is well back in the magazine so the feed ramp will not touch it when it recoils. Once the gun fires, it feeds the next cartridge in just fine. But because the magazine spring puts so much force between the third cartridge and the bottom of the slide, the third cartridge gets pushed forward a little bit as the slide is returning to battery. This sets up the scenario to damage the bullet's nose. Round resting too far forward in magazine, feed ramp and barrel recoils with force, edge of ramp smashes bullet nose. As the magazine empties, it no longer puts enough force on the ammo to cause it to push forward.

Now I've been trying to contact Kimber all week and cannot get a response. I sit on "hold" for 5+ minutes at a time. I've emailed. Nothing. Are they still in business?
 

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When I first got my Micro 9 and went to the range to put the first 300 rounds through it, this is exactly what mine did with one particular magazine (the factory Kimber magazine). I also went with 2 Sig Sauer 7rnd magazines I had tooled the magazine base pad to fit the kimber. Those two worked fine. But about every 3rd or 4th time with the Kimber Mag, it at a FTF and the nose of the 2nd round hung like you described. After that day I checked the Sig magazines compared to the Kimber magazine; the Kimber's spring was noticeably lighter as I pushed down on the follower. I called Kimber and they thought it was a magazine issue too and sent me a new one. I took the original Kimber Magazine and stretched the spring (manually) and put it back in. It felt much closer to the Sig magazines after that. Went to the range w/the new Kimber mag, the old Kimber Mag and the two Sig mags and all went fine. I also polished the feed ramp but I don't really think that helped this issue as the FTF really never made it to the ramp... always got hung on the bottom edge of the feed ramp.

All I can say is I stretched the spring in magazine and have put another 300 rounds through and she runs good now.
 

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Huh. That's strange. I wonder why a stonger spring would eliminate the problem. I would think it just the opposite. Since it only seems to ding the bullet when the magazine is full, or nearly full, it would seem that when there is more compression, the problem shows up.

I thought that because the round underneath the slide is pushing up so hard, that the friction causes the round to slide forward, which puts it in the way of the recoiling feed ramp.

So Sig magazines are not drop-in ready? What has to be done to modify?
 

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Gotta shave the base pad down a little. Nothing crazy. Pretty obvious too.

I hear yanon the spring... hut it seemed to work.
 

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So this has been going on for a few months now. I have 7 round mags and when I load 7 rounds in, after the first shot the next round nose dives and gets stuck on the feedramp. It has only happened with round nose ammo. I haven't tried flat nosed (the flat nosed stuff I have is a higher grain that I don't enjoy shooting through the micro 9.

Has anyone had this issue? I ask because I happened to catch a YouTube video of another person mentioned that it was happening to them as well.

I believe that if I load 6 rounds in, it's fine.
So I was testing this issue (because I had it previously too) out with my 7rnd mags. I think I figured out why this is happening. I'm guessing this is pretty much happening to all magazines, but not sure why only some folks are experiencing the FTF and others not.

The issue is in the magazine follower, not the feed ramp or anything to do with the gun itself. If you load 2 rounds in your magazine, the follower sits exactly how it's supposed to. As you load more rounds in, the follower's nose begins to dip down a little bit due to spring pressure (I presume). By the 7th round in the magazine, the first 6 are now laying more horizontal, while the 7th round is still sitting in the magazine correctly. If you look between the 6th and 7th round in the magazine (the top two rounds), there's an air gap between the noses of the rounds. You can actually push down on the top round, it it'll move 1/4". If you unload 4 or 5 rounds, so there's only 2 or 3, this gap goes away and all rounds are sitting as they're supposed to.

Basically when the magazine is full, and the slide comes back to feed the next round, and because there's a gap between the top two rounds, the top one is able to nose down a little more than normal and it sometimes gets stuck on the feed ramp. A good bump on the rear of the slide will usually put it into full battery.

Here's some pictures to help what I'm talking about, there's descriptions preceding each picture.

PICTURE 1: Magazine with only 2 rounds loaded - notice the 2nd one poking it's nose out.



PICTURE 2: Magazine with 7 rounds loaded - notice you cannot even see the nose of the 2nd round down from the top



PICTURE 3: Magazine with 7 rounds loaded - look between the top two rounds and you can see the gap due to what I presume is the follower has nosed down a little bit allowing this to happen.



PICTURE 4: Magazine with 7 rounds loaded - I am pushing down on the top round. The nose is allowed to move downward about 1/4" due to the gap present.

 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
So I was testing this issue (because I had it previously too) out with my 7rnd mags. I think I figured out why this is happening. I'm guessing this is pretty much happening to all magazines, but not sure why only some folks are experiencing the FTF and others not.

The issue is in the magazine follower, not the feed ramp or anything to do with the gun itself. If you load 2 rounds in your magazine, the follower sits exactly how it's supposed to. As you load more rounds in, the follower's nose begins to dip down a little bit due to spring pressure (I presume). By the 7th round in the magazine, the first 6 are now laying more horizontal, while the 7th round is still sitting in the magazine correctly. If you look between the 6th and 7th round in the magazine (the top two rounds), there's an air gap between the noses of the rounds. You can actually push down on the top round, it it'll move 1/4". If you unload 4 or 5 rounds, so there's only 2 or 3, this gap goes away and all rounds are sitting as they're supposed to.

Basically when the magazine is full, and the slide comes back to feed the next round, and because there's a gap between the top two rounds, the top one is able to nose down a little more than normal and it sometimes gets stuck on the feed ramp. A good bump on the rear of the slide will usually put it into full battery.

Here's some pictures to help what I'm talking about, there's descriptions preceding each picture.

PICTURE 1: Magazine with only 2 rounds loaded - notice the 2nd one poking it's nose out.



PICTURE 2: Magazine with 7 rounds loaded - notice you cannot even see the nose of the 2nd round down from the top



PICTURE 3: Magazine with 7 rounds loaded - look between the top two rounds and you can see the gap due to what I presume is the follower has nosed down a little bit allowing this to happen.



PICTURE 4: Magazine with 7 rounds loaded - I am pushing down on the top round. The nose is allowed to move downward about 1/4" due to the gap present.

Yes I have noticed this as well. I guess if there was an anti tilt follower like in some of the rifle mags we probably wouldn't have this issue.
 

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The root of the problem is the tapered 9mm cartridge case. A straight-wall case like a .40S&W would stack straight and eliminate this flaw. Presumably the tapered case design was for easier extraction back in the pioneer days of autoloading pistols.
 

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The root of the problem is the tapered 9mm cartridge case. A straight-wall case like a .40S&W would stack straight and eliminate this flaw. Presumably the tapered case design was for easier extraction back in the pioneer days of autoloading pistols.
I never noticed this; it does taper ever so slightly. So you're saying all single stack magazines allow a fully loaded magazine to have this gap between the top two rounds?

This is my first 9mm single stack, my double stack does not have this problem.
 

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"The root of the problem is the tapered 9mm cartridge case".

The straight cased Micro .380 has exactly the same issue. It appears to be normal to all single stacks.
 

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Yes, the ones I have observed all do, but not necessarily to as great an extent. My old Firestar M40 shows this trait, but without any associated feeding problem. I have noticed on the SIG boards that some P938 owners have experienced the same 7 rd trouble as Micro 9. A 9mm cartridge should ideally be fed from a (slightly) curved magazine to allow for the taper. However, traditionally, 9mm mags have all been straight, even on hi-cap SMGs such as the MP40 and Sten, and they seemed to function OK. So why this is a problem only with the Micro 9 and P938 (nearly identical magazines) remains a mystery. One difference between single and double stack magazines is the double is somewhat tapered in from back to front, which brings the cartridges into better fitment.
 

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Sadly, I could never get comfortable in trusting this gun in a life or death situation. I tried all of the suggestions here & from other sources to no avail. Even sent it back to the Mother Ship. They fiddled around with it & it seemed to be ok, but I just lost interest in it as a carry gun.

I have a SIG P238 & a Colt Mustang that are my main deep cover carries in the summer. Both of these guns have ran like a top.

Traded the Micro 9 for a full size Remington R1 stainless last weekend. It's no Kimber, but for a GI 1911 it is a decent gun. I have the same gun in blue. Both are great shooters.

I am saddened by the Micro 9's issues. Not sure what Kimber's problem is, but making PRETTY guns that are not reliable is not going to get it.
 

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The problem is in the magazines, not the guns. Both my Micro 9 and my Micro .380 had the nose diving problem (I run 8-round mags in both). The air gap seems to be normal for full single stack magazines. It is not limited to Kimber and doesn't really seem to be the issue.

For me, the resolution in both pistols has been to do three things to the magazines

1) slightly flex the front of the magazine feed lips inboard to minimise the upward rise of the case rim as it moves forward

2) remove one loop from the magazine spring to reduce the upward force when the magazine is full

3) slightly stretch the shortened spring so that adequate upward force remains when only one round is left in the magazine.

With these changes to each mag, I have come to trust the Micro 9 enough for carry and am rapidly developing trust in the Micro .380.

As an aside, I got 8+1 rounds in the Micro 9 by using modified Sig P290 8-round magazines, and 8+1 rounds in the Micro .380 by using a modified Sig P238 MagGuts kit in 7-round Kimber magazines. In the .380 I use Hornady 90gr XTP JHP ammo because it has a relatively narrow nose that is a good match for the narrow .380 feed ramp.
 

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The whole experiment with Kimber & the Micro 9 was a total disappointment. A gun with Kimber's reputation, & the fact that it is a NEW gun is unfair to the folks that want to be loyal customers .For some new buyers, this is big purchase that they may have had to save up for. Certainly NOT something one would expect from what is HYPED to be a world class gun.

Feelings are hurt. Money is lost when one decides to sell or trade.

All I know is, with the added sales that have been generated in the last couple years & looking at the shortages some gun manufacturers have had in the last couple years, They may be putting guns out too early & leaving them out instead of working on issues that will keep us happy.


So for the immediate future I will keep the 1911 Raptor , but will not be buying another Kimber at any price,
 

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I'm quite content with my M9 and M.380.
Small, light, easily concealable, accurate, good looking, 8+1, and fully dependable after a few minutes work on the magazines.
 
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