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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Overall, I’m calling this experiment a draw.

One Springfield had to go back to the manufacturer because the sights were off and required a replacement sight.

One Kimber is going to have to go back for failures to chamber. This is the single worst case of failure to feed that I’ve seen yet with a 90% failure to feed with two different mags and two different ammo manufacturers. This one also had cosmetic flaws from fitting Kimber tried to hide under the matte finish.

One Springfield had FTF issues due to a a rough engraving. That was easily fixed. It was also the tightest fit of any of the guns I looked at, that’s a huge plus. It also shot the tightest group.

One Kimber was exceptionally rough out of the box but it did function after a healthy cleaning. It does require more attention than the others during the breakin but it does appear that it’s smoothing out. It did not like the first set of magazines I bought for it which is disappointing. This is the first 1911 that I’ve had interchangeability issues with mags.

The odd man out is the third Kimber. It didn’t have anything wrong out of the box. Basic cleaning and it was ready to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I opened the Kimber 10mm again to look for obvious issues.

The only thing that jumped out right away was that to be a chunk of the feed ramp missing.

Brown Wood Tints and shades Human leg Metal


Here is the barrel next to the other 10mm barrel (what it should look like). The other side of that feed ramp doesn’t look so hot either.
Household hardware Cylinder Wood Gas Auto part


I don’t know that this is the problem but it did seem like the rounds were favoring that upper left corner to get hung up. I’m sure this doesn’t help.

This will be going back to Kimber. While they are at it, they can fix the slide.


Grey Automotive tire Gas Audio equipment Gadget
 

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I opened the Kimber 10mm again to look for obvious issues.

The only thing that jumped out right away was that to be a chunk of the feed ramp missing.

View attachment 130382

Here is the barrel next to the other 10mm barrel (what it should look like). The other side of that feed ramp doesn’t look so hot either.
View attachment 130383

I don’t know that this is the problem but it did seem like the rounds were favoring that upper left corner to get hung up. I’m sure this doesn’t help.

This will be going back to Kimber. While they are at it, they can fix the slide.


View attachment 130385
Not that I’m a gunsmith but I’ve never seen damage like that to feed ramp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Awesome review. Very timely as I have been looking at the same SA and Kimber models.
At least you know what to expect and what to look for. The good news is, Springfield’s service is top notch. I’ve dealt with them before. Always easy to talk to and the problems get resolved in a timely manner.

Kimber has a good reputation for fixing issues but I will reserve comment until I see what happens with that 10mm. I explained the issue to the customer service rep and shared the exact same pictures as I shared with you all.
 

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The only issue I've ever had with Springfield was after I bought the first generation XD/s, it was recalled. That's always disappointing, but it happens. They made the shipping back and forth pretty easy and returned it to me in less than two weeks, including shipping time. The second was a defective RDS on my Hellcat that would not hold zero. They sent a replacement without any hassle, and it worked fine.

With Kimber, only once. The safety on my Micro 380 was binding. I thought it was a break-in thing, but it wasn't getting better after 200 rounds. Rather than my habit of fixing it myself, I decided warranty repair was best. Same thing as SA. I had it back in two weeks, and it's worked well ever since.
 

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The only issue I've ever had with Springfield was after I bought the first generation XD/s, it was recalled. That's always disappointing, but it happens. They made the shipping back and forth pretty easy and returned it to me in less than two weeks, including shipping time. The second was a defective RDS on my Hellcat that would not hold zero. They sent a replacement without any hassle, and it worked fine.

With Kimber, only once. The safety on my Micro 380 was binding. I thought it was a break-in thing, but it wasn't getting better after 200 rounds. Rather than my habit of fixing it myself, I decided warranty repair was best. Same thing as SA. I had it back in two weeks, and it's worked well ever since.
Grip Zone!!:D
 
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View attachment 130455
Pre Grip Zone! The first gen grip was like an offroad mud tire. The Grip Zone was way better grip-wise but I thought it was silly to emblazon that term on the frame. Some marketing wonk thought that was a good idea.
Grip Zone billboard logo was one bad decision in a long list of bad decisions.
Probably by the same executive that thought selling out state FFLs and donating to anti gun lobby groups (as long as they get an exemption) was a good idea.
Springfield makes good guns, there is no argument there, but they aren't a friend to the gun community.
 

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Grip Zone billboard logo was one bad decision in a long list of bad decisions.
Probably by the same executive that thought selling out state FFLs and donating to anti gun lobby groups (as long as they get an exemption) was a good idea.
Springfield makes good guns, there is no argument there, but they aren't a friend to the gun community.
Illinois politics. He had no choice. I grew up there and had the displeasure of living among people who were connected politically. Believe me, it is as corrupt as it gets. It's ten times worse now than when I was a kid. The only reason I go there is to visit my mother. I hate it there and when Mom is gone I will never set foot on Illinois soil again.

They had the CEO by the balls. Even so, I agree the guy made a wrong decision and tainted the company's reputation, but the full story was never told. SA is not the size of Beretta and can't follow their lead by telling the state they are established in to f-off then pack up and move to TN. Beretta did that in Maryland and some others have too. At that stage in SA's history, it would have broken their back financially.

Springfield recently hired the guy that ran Beretta USA. He's the new Pres. and the CEO isn't the public face of the company anymore. Smart move. Gun owners have long memories.
 

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Illinois politics. He had no choice. I grew up there and had the displeasure of living among people who were connected politically. Believe me, it is as corrupt as it gets. It's ten times worse now than when I was a kid. The only reason I go there is to visit my mother. I hate it there and when Mom is gone I will never set foot on Illinois soil again.

They had the CEO by the balls. Even so, I agree the guy made a wrong decision and tainted the company's reputation, but the full story was never told. SA is not the size of Beretta and can't follow their lead by telling the state they are established in to f-off then pack up and move to TN. Beretta did that in Maryland and some others have too. At that stage in SA's history, it would have broken their back financially.

Beretta recently hired the guy that ran Beretta USA. He's the new Pres. and the CEO isn't the public face of the company anymore. Smart move. Gun owners have long memories.
Bullshit.
SA chose to donate to anti 2A groups, and originally opposed a bill that would require additional state licensing of all IL FFLs, but decided to SUPPORT the bill once they were offered an exemption.
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
They only did an about face when they were ostracized by a large portion of the gun community and their actions made public, causing sales to plummet.
Springfield arms would sell us all out for a dollar.
In fact, they actively tried to do that very thing.

SA makes decent guns.
Their 1911s are good to go, the hellcat is a fine pistol, and the new Hellion VHS is definitely an interesting gun, but they are not a friend to the 2A.
 

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Bullshit.
SA chose to donate to anti 2A groups, and originally opposed a bill that would require additional state licensing of all IL FFLs, but decided to SUPPORT the bill once they were offered an exemption.
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
They only did an about face when they were ostracized by a large portion of the gun community and their actions made public, causing sales to plummet.
Springfield arms would sell us all out for a dollar.
In fact, they actively tried to do that very thing.

SA makes decent guns.
Their 1911s are good to go, the hellcat is a fine pistol, and the new Hellion VHS is definitely an interesting gun, but they are not a friend to the 2A.
I have no illusions about how corporations behave. They will all sell out if anti-gun lobby and like-minded government officials at the state and federal gain enough support to squeeze them. Corporations have no soul and no morals. They answer to shareholders not customers and are about making money and nothing else. People who believe otherwise have never sat in a board room.

The founder of SA is dead. Passed in 2019.
 

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Not to beat a dead CEO... but here's some recommended reading to support my argument. Written by the former top dog at Kimber. He's now a gun control advocate and says the gun industry has run dangerously amok.


Watch him run for office. Wouldnt surprise me.
 

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Not to beat a dead CEO... but here's some recommended reading to support my argument. Written by the former top dog at Kimber. He's now a gun control advocate and says the gun industry has run dangerously amok.


Watch him run for office. Wouldnt surprise me.
Yep.
Busse is a communist.
Kimber fired his ass and moved from commie NY to free Alabama.

Kimber also did NOT actively work against the 2A and the gun industry. Ever.

Springfield sure did, and went balls deep to do it.
Don't get it wrong, I would absolutely buy a used SA 1911 at a good price. They are excellent guns. I give credit where it is due.
I won't buy a new one.
 

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Yep.
Busse is a communist.
Kimber fired his ass and moved from commie NY to free Alabama.

Kimber also did NOT actively work against the 2A and the gun industry. Ever.

Springfield sure did, and went balls deep to do it.
Don't get it wrong, I would absolutely buy a used SA 1911 at a good price. They are excellent guns. I give credit where it is due.
I won't buy a new one.
Bill Ruger (also dead) agreed to a ban on magazines over 15 rounds.

So here we have a history of Kimber, Ruger, and Springfield executives in the eyes of many support 'infringing' on the right to bear arms. Yet firearm sales have gone thru the roof for close to two decades now. Think the gun community can trust any of them? Or their successors? Not me.

The answer is not what corporations do. They don't give a flying F about us. They follow the money and what their lawyers and bankers tell them to do. Gunmaker behavior is easy to predict and influence. But the consumer is not the influencer. Politics is.

The problem my friend is the growing number of Americans who vote for gun control advocates and the huge amount of money that the super-wealthy are pumping into that machine. The other problem is people who talk about freedom and wave the flag but don't actually vote. Forget carry permits and tax stamps. I believe voter registration and bothering to show up at the polls should be mandatory for gun ownership. In short: Participate in the system and vote or STFU.

I'll step off the soapbox now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
View attachment 130455
Pre Grip Zone! The first gen grip was like an offroad mud tire. The Grip Zone was way better grip-wise but I thought it was silly to emblazon that term on the frame. Some marketing wonk thought that was a good idea.
Isn't that the same texture they call "grenade"

SA chose to donate to anti 2A groups, and originally opposed a bill that would require additional state licensing of all IL FFLs, but decided to SUPPORT the bill once they were offered an exemption.
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
They only did an about face when they were ostracized by a large portion of the gun community and their actions made public, causing sales to plummet.
Brother, I don't know where you guys keep getting this information from but to date no one has ever produced anything to support this. Springfield Armory has done nothing of the sort. People were pissed off about the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA) withdrawing its protest of the Gun Dealer Licensing Act. The deal would exempt Illinois manufacturers from requiring an IL license to sell firearms. They did so to protect its members. That's all it was. IL has been fully run by democrats for over 40 years. The bill was going to pass regardless of their protest.

Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms, the two biggest manufacturers in IL were found guilty by association. Springfield Armory severed its ties with the IFMA the next day. So these "anti-2A" organizations they were donating to is the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association. Hardly an anti-2A org. Please stop spreading that story. There is nothing true about it.
 

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Bill Ruger (also dead) agreed to a ban on magazines over 15 rounds.

So here we have a history of Kimber, Ruger, and Springfield executives in the eyes of many support 'infringing' on the right to bear arms. Yet firearm sales have gone thru the roof for close to two decades now. Think the gun community can trust any of them? Or their successors? Not me.

The answer is not what corporations do. They don't give a flying F about us. They follow the money and what their lawyers and bankers tell them to do. Gunmaker behavior is easy to predict and influence. But the consumer is not the influencer. Politics is.

The problem my friend is the growing number of Americans who vote for gun control advocates and the huge amount of money that the super-wealthy are pumping into that machine. The other problem is people who talk about freedom and wave the flag but don't actually vote. Forget carry permits and tax stamps. I believe voter registration and bothering to show up at the polls should be mandatory for gun ownership. In short: Participate in the system and vote or STFU.

I'll step off the soapbox now.
I have never bought a new Ruger for that very reason.
But I do own several. They make solid guns.

You are right..but when those "super wealthy" that are pumping money into that machine
are actual gun manufacturers who also get major government contracts the history buff in me raises an eye brow and closes my wallet.

As far as voting goes, once you read a few of my older posts you'll realize you are preaching to the deacons.
Vote locally.
Your state, county and city elections mean more than the larger federal elections.
I'll also do ya one further..
I believe there should be zero restrictions on gun ownership.
Freedom be scary.
 
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