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Discussion Starter #1
As the topic was touched on in another thread here ya go...
Like many families we've made a conscious effort to pay more attention to what we eat over the past several years. The goal being to bolster our overall well being. One of the fundamental ways being to improve "gut health" by avoiding as much processed, preserved or GMO food as possible. The truth is that this is somewhat of a rabbit hole as there are various "organic" designations and some really don't mean much. There also is truth in the fact that commercial agricultural techniques have changed dramatically since the mid '80s. Companies like Monsanto have developed methods that are certainly profitable but may have compromised the quality of the food? Personally some years back on my first drive from LA to the Bay Area something snapped. There's an expansive cattle "factory" that you smell miles before you see it about 1/3 of the way there. You can see it on Google Earth, it's big. Maybe I'm sensitive but it horrified me and put me off to red meat for some time...
So, do you pay attention to where your meat and veggies come from or not and why???
 

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Really don't pay attention to all the hype. Do you realize how much you would have to eat before you pollute your body! Now I am a firm believer that if someone uses some lettuce to wipe themselves in the field common sense says don't eat it. You do need some pesticides to control infestations just clean fruit and veggies before you eat. Yes, animals smell, all animals smell including humans! Its just a fact of life. With proper cooking anything that could kill you is killed itself. If you don't mind paying way more for organic food and it makes you feel better by all means purchase it. For me, i'm going to die whatever I eat so just enjoy your life and stop worrying about things you can't control.
 

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Almost all crops today are Genetically Modified either through selective breeding or chemical modification, otherwise they wouldnt yeild enough to feed us.
This is an example good GMOs.
Monsanto modifies its genetics to make subsequent generations sterile.
This means farmers have to buy seeds each season from Monsanto.
Pollen from these plants can contaminate neighboring farms, thus sterilizing them.
This is an example of bad GMO.

Most commercial fertilizers are salt based organic compounds, and minerals necessary for plant growth.
You cant fertilizer 1500 acres with cow shit, and spring water.

Organic foods conjure the image of naturally grown vegetables in rich soil with natural or no pesticides.
That isnt possible on a commercial scale.
The organic label means the farms follow a few guidelines and use "certified" pesticides and nutrients.
Truely organic foods are grown small scale in home/hobby farms, with lots of attention.
Thats why they cost more.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well I guess we can agree that the clock is ticking for all of us. On the food that's another story. Every day there's more and more evidence coming in that supports the idea that the lack of nutritional value in a lot of what's in our markets is to blame for the disease rates in the US. We rank pretty poorly on that. Some methods used to raise animals or cultivate crops here are considered illegal in other countries. It's not so much that a pathogen needs to be killed or anything washed off as unnatural compounds shouldn't be eaten.
 

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Well I guess we can agree that the clock is ticking for all of us.
With some of us, the clock is ticking faster than with others.
And we have the ability to adjust how fast that clock ticks.

I find it odd that people want to argue about the virtues of organic vs. conventionally farmed food, which to me is not unlike arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin. Oddly, some of the most vocal on the matter aren't the sort of people who should be consulted regarding wellness. If it is heath that we want to encourage, why don't we talk about fast food? On any given day 37% of American adults will consume fast food. McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's--they're all responsible for more deaths annually than Covid-19. Fast food is the low hanging fruit. If you want to save people, get rid of that. Ditch the burger and fries, and replace it with an apple. Whether it's organic or drenched in alar isn't all that important.

To answer your question, I choose organic vegetables when they look good. If the conventional vegetables look better, I'll pick those.

You jogged my memory about a man who I admired greatly. He's talking about something entirely different, but uses organic farming as an example.

 

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Well I guess we can agree that the clock is ticking for all of us. On the food that's another story. Every day there's more and more evidence coming in that supports the idea that the lack of nutritional value in a lot of what's in our markets is to blame for the disease rates in the US. We rank pretty poorly on that. Some methods used to raise animals or cultivate crops here are considered illegal in other countries. It's not so much that a pathogen needs to be killed or anything washed off as unnatural compounds shouldn't be eaten.
There is a definite difference in the quality of mass grown veggies compared to smaller farms. Smaller farms produce better crops overall, IME.
Monsanto crops are mediocre quality at best, from a greedy corporation.


The only "methods" used here to raise livestock that are considered "illegal" are restricted due to religion.

As far as this nations nutrition and health, oir eating habits are 100% the problem, not the availability of nutritional food.

How often do you eat out? Fast food? Pizza? drink alcohol?

Grass fed free range beef on gluten free wheat bread with organic goat cheese is still a fucking cheeseburger.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There is a definite difference in the quality of mass grown veggies compared to smaller farms. Smaller farms produce better crops overall, IME.
Monsanto crops are mediocre quality at best, from a greedy corporation.


The only "methods" used here to raise livestock that are considered "illegal" are restricted due to religion.

As far as this nations nutrition and health, oir eating habits are 100% the problem, not the availability of nutritional food.

How often do you eat out? Fast food? Pizza? drink alcohol?

Grass fed free range beef on gluten free wheat bread with organic goat cheese is still a fucking cheeseburger.
Personally I almost never eat out anymore, this has been for several years prior to covid. Before that the SAD (Standard American Diet) was the norm. I traveled often and always ate in restaurants, pizzas, ribs, Longhorn, Outback the Olive Garden were all rotating stops to name a few. At a minimum several alcoholic beverages EVERY day and I smoked too. I was sorta an honorary Allman Brother and had lots of fun. When my MD had me come in to discuss putting me on a statin it prompted some major lifestyle changes. That started the journey and I'm still on it. I guess it was about six month after changing my diet I did follow up blood work. My DR called late one afternoon a few days later and she said "what the hell are you doing", "your my star patient"! Turned out I got everything in order by changing my eating and lifestyle habits... like you said, our nations eating habits are the problem. The addictive additives in most boxed and canned foods absolutely contribute to the abysmal disease rates we have.
On the red meat our local small grocer is the option for that. Yup, grass fed and from New Zealand in fact. They have strict regulations, as do many other nations on ranches. The price is quite reasonable, tastes much better than the normal supermarket offerings and oddly a smaller portion satisfies you. Even at that we only eat it a few times a month. So like you attested to with produce it's really not all created equal.
One of our local Atlanta health guru's is DR Joe Esposito. He authored a book called 'the Seven Deadly Sins of Nutrition" some years ago. He's nationally known but that put him on the map. There's a YouTube video of him reviewing the content live, it's a really good listen for anyone interested in improving their health naturally. if anyone would attach it that'd be great.
 

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Grass-fed beef from New Zealand isnt fed 100% on "grass".
Their diets are supplemented with grains and vitamins just like regular cattle here, or they wouldn't produce quality meat.
Hay and alfalfa are grass.

The US Beef industry is held to some of the highest standards on earth.
New Zealand doesn't peoduce a fraction of the beef we do.


And dude,...."Dr. Joe" Esposito is a Chiropractor, not an MD.
Grain of salt.
 
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I WAS A LOT HEALTHIER WHEN I ATE JUNK FOOD.START EATING SPINACH AND YOUR BLOOD COAGULATES. EAT SALAD AND YOU GET BOWEL OBSTRUCTION.FRESH TOMATOES AND YOU ARTHRITIS INFLAMES. THE LIST GOES ON..
 

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I only shoot organic Kimbers.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Grass-fed beef from New Zealand isnt fed 100% on "grass".
Their diets are supplemented with grains and vitamins just like regular cattle here, or they wouldn't produce quality meat.
Hay and alfalfa are grass.

The US Beef industry is held to some of the highest standards on earth.
New Zealand doesn't peoduce a fraction of the beef we do.


And dude,...."Dr. Joe" Esposito is a Chiropractor, not an MD.
Grain of salt.
...you may want do do a lil research on the beef thing there ninja. There are antibiotic and hormone factors to come into play as well as others. I assure you the reason your seeing more and more organic, grass fed and free range type options at the market isn't because someone's looking to gank you. Customers want healthier fare for a reason, it's not "fake news", it's better. If you choose to believe the quality of beef you get at BK is comparable what's served at Bones Steakhouse that's cool.
 

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...you may want do do a lil research on the beef thing there ninja. There are antibiotic and hormone factors to come into play as well as others. I assure you the reason your seeing more and more organic, grass fed and free range type options at the market isn't because someone's looking to gank you. Customers want healthier fare for a reason, it's not "fake news", it's better. If you choose to believe the quality of beef you get at BK is comparable what's served at Bones Steakhouse that's cool.
I dont choose to believe.
The majority of my family farm for a living and have for a very long time.

The antibiotics keep you from eating infrcted stock.

What hormones exactly are legal here but illegal anywhere else?
Name just one please.

What the hell is a "free range cow?"
We dont "open range" cattle simce the early 1900s, but most cattle live in fenced pastures.
(I'll take some pics tomorrow for you).
Thats some "free range" marketing bullshit right there.

If you think BK uses the same cut of meat Bones steakhouse uses you need to talk to a butcher, and make a friend.
Of course there is a difference in quality from farm to farm, cut to cut, and bread of cattle.
You can get shitty meat in every country.
Our food standards are the best in the world overall.
Some farmers are better than others.
Blaming the nations health problems on government regulations is a cop out.
We CHOOSE to eat like shit.
The governments job is not to save us from ourselves.
They cant even balance a damn checkbook.

90% of the meat and veggies I eat are grown locally or caught/killed.
Make better choices. Know where your food comes from.
 

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The majority of my family farm for a living and have for a very long time.

The antibiotics keep you from eating infrcted stock.
Just because great grandpappy raised cows that were confined to pens and forced them to wade in their own shit does not make you an expert. Healthy animals are not infected in the first place, and therefore do not require drugs to prevent them from dying before they make it to the slaughterhouse. Believe it or not, some other countries raise their animals in grassy fields, a few per acre, and the quality of their meat is far superior to that found on most American dinner tables.
 

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Just because great grandpappy raised cows that were confined to pens and forced them to wade in their own shit does not make you an expert. Healthy animals are not infected in the first place, and therefore do not require drugs to prevent them from dying before they make it to the slaughterhouse. Believe it or not, some other countries raise their animals in grassy fields, a few per acre, and the quality of their meat is far superior to that found on most American dinner tables.

Well, growing up I worked on a 1350 acre family farm with Cattle.
Later I worked running irrigation for local farms and other family farms, before doing my own thing.
I have managed a working farm and am prepping 15 acres for my peronal use now.
Im not an expert, but I have whats called actual. experience.

Your beef is not confined to pens.
They are raised in pastures.
On smaller farms, we move the cows from field to field because they fertilize the field for hay, which we harvest, bail, and use to feed them


Seriously...
Where do you guys get this horseshit?

You want better beef?
Stop buying food at Walmart.
 

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Support your local farmers. Frequent your local farmers market(s) and meat breeders. I have two meat sources within 15 miles of me, and can watch my food grow. I know both families that run these businesses and trust them in how they raise our food. The choices we make when/what/where we eat are the only factors into our health.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, growing up I worked on a 1350 acre family farm with Cattle.
Later I worked running irrigation for local farms and other family farms, before doing my own thing.
I have managed a working farm and am prepping 15 acres for my peronal use now.
Im not an expert, but I have whats called actual. experience.

Your beef is not confined to pens.
They are raised in pastures.
On smaller farms, we move the cows from field to field because they fertilize the field for hay, which we harvest, bail, and use to feed them


Seriously...
Where do you guys get this horseshit?

You want better beef?
Stop buying food at Walmart.
...I think you hit the nail on the head with the Walmart nod. The problem with non organic meat is mainly with large industrial operations. Not like the one you worked with or are developing. On your new venture I hope you'll consider setting up to be organic. It's the future of the industry IMO. Hey I can market your product to the organic outlets here in Athens and Atlanta!!! I'm sorta "one of them" so they'll buy from me ✌🏻 If you grew up on a farm you remember the size of a healthy chicken when you were a kid right. How is it that chickens are now 3x that size anyways?
Back to the commercial beef, to be specific on a few regulatory factors between here and the EU for example.
...antibiotics to promote growth in meat animals are widely used here but are banned in the EU
...beef hormones are permitted here, banned in the EU
...dairy specific hormones, permitted here, yup banned in the EU
...gestation crates for hogs, banned in some states, widely used elsewhere, banned in the EU for years.
...New Zealand has more stringent requirements
These are are things directly done to the animals not even considering the feed issues. When you shop for meat at one of the big box grocers (we just don't) you have almost no way to know what the animal was exposed to. Unless of course it is designated USDA Organic.
You can probably come up with a longer list than I can of fertilizers and such that have been deemed hazardous to use in produce cultivation. Chemicals that were once considered fine are prohibited now. It won't surprise me to find things in used now will be unacceptable soon enough, seems to be the trend? DDT and Agent Orange were once considered "safe enough"!!!
 

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Mark you hit on several topics in the same post.

Antibiotics dont promote growth. They help the body fight invasive infections.
Selective breeding is why you see bigger chickens than 100 years ago.
Unhealthy animals provide a faulty product that wont sell in a competitive, free market.
It is only profitable to raise healthy animals.
Vendors dont buy shit they can't sell.


Get your ass out of commie ran Atlanta.
That place has been a shithole of bad decisions since Jackson was mayor.

25 miles outside of Fulton co you can find the best quality food on the planet.

You can litterally see the vast green pastures with cows from the damn interstate.
Off the paved roads are tons of farms growing veggies.


My personal little plot will be 5 acres of food for us, and 10 acres of blueberries.
Blueberries are extremely profitable.

1 acre of Blueberries, once mature, can produce realistically $30k +/- per year....every year.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Mark you hit on several topics in the same post.

Antibiotics dont promote growth. They help the body fight invasive infections.
Selective breeding is why you see bigger chickens than 100 years ago.
Unhealthy animals provide a faulty product that wont sell in a competitive, free market.
It is only profitable to raise healthy animals.
Vendors dont buy shit they can't sell.


Get your ass out of commie ran Atlanta.
That place has been a shithole of bad decisions since Jackson was mayor.

25 miles outside of Fulton co you can find the best quality food on the planet.

You can litterally see the vast green pastures with cows from the damn interstate.
Off the paved roads are tons of farms growing veggies.


My personal little plot will be 5 acres of food for us, and 10 acres of blueberries.
Blueberries are extremely profitable.

1 acre of Blueberries, once mature, can produce realistically $30k +/- per year....every year.
There's an antibiotic called neomycin that's sometimes used to help promote growth in calves here in the US. The practice is banned elsewhere. And yes rural GA is quite scenic, we're outside Athens not in Fulton county. We're surrounded by small farms, many raise cattle. Again you and other small operations aren't the problem. I'm sorry if I've come off as pointing a finger at you with the produce or cattle. The industrial scale ranches and farms produce a less desirable product like you've stated several times. That USDA Organic indication is generally a good way to avoid the iffy stuff that's all.

on to serious business, how about this:

"BAD A$$ BLUEBERRIES"
USDA ORGANICLY grown on
bad ninja farms
...I'll buy um :)
 
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