[Dan03833]

So, just picked up my Mako on Saturday. Took it to the range today. I've never shot a pistol with a red dot before. What is the proper sight alignment? Cover the dot with the front sight? Lollipop it? A bit above front sight?
Overall though, I really like the gun. I shoot it a lot better than my Ruger LC9s Pro for which I am replacing with the Mako.

 

[Oklahomabound]

I prefer this:

 

[bhunted]

So, just picked up my Mako on Saturday. Took it to the range today. I've never shot a pistol with a red dot before. What is the proper sight alignment? Cover the dot with the front sight? Lollipop it? A bit above front sight?
Overall though, I really like the gun. I shoot it a lot better than my Ruger LC9s Pro for which I am replacing with the Mako.

Unless Im misunderstanding you and you are talking a red dot like an rmr, once aligned, both eyes open. Shoot where dot is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jsb30]

Put the dot where you want to hit.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Before leaving home I'd suggest adjusting the dot to align with fixed sights as Oklahombound illustrates. When at the range adjust to the zero distance you prefer. Kimber says their fixed sight guns come from the factory regulated to shoot point of aim at 25 yards but there's plenty of threads here indicating different experiences.

The thing to remember is that the red dot works independently of the fixed sights. When your eye is aligned with the fixed sights the red dot will also be aligned. However, if you move your head the red dot will remain on target while the fixed sights are no longer aligned with your eye.

 

[1SgtDavo]

Before leaving home I'd suggest adjusting the dot to align with fixed sights as Oklahombound illustrates. When at the range adjust to the zero distance you prefer. Kimber says their fixed sight guns come from the factory regulated to shoot point of aim at 25 yards but there's plenty of threads here indicating different experiences.

The thing to remember is that the red dot works independently of the fixed sights. When your eye is aligned with the fixed sights the red dot will also be aligned. However, if you move your head the red dot will remain on target while the fixed sights are no longer aligned with your eye.

what he said.

 

[DungFu]

I calibrate my red dots with a high quality laser bore sight. On pistols with RDS, I ignore the iron sights.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

One of the nice features of red dot sights, is that it does not matter where in the window the dot appears, off-center, low, whatever. You only need to place the dot on the target and fire to hit your target. I was surprised the first time I took my Kimber Aegis Elite Custom out and discovered that as long as I could see the dot, place it on the target, a hit was about certain even if the dot was at the edge of the window. Very cool stuff, these sights.



With a bit of practice, the dot comes right up every time offering a great sight picture. When shooting my steel at ranges from 7 yards to 50 yards, my hit ratio went up about 50% compared to irons only. I see at least one more MRDS in my future. (The dot appears much larger in the pic than it actually is....6 MOA)

 

[JC45]

One of the nice features of red dot sights, is that it does not matter where in the window the dot appears, off-center, low, whatever. You only need to place the dot on the target and fire to hit your target. I was surprised the first time I took my Kimber Aegis Elite Custom out and discovered that as long as I could see the dot, place it on the target, a hit was about certain even if the dot was at the edge of the window. Very cool stuff, these sights.



With a bit of practice, the dot comes right up every time offering a great sight picture. When shooting my steel at ranges from 7 yards to 50 yards, my hit ratio went up about 50% compared to irons only. I see at least one more MRDS in my future. (The dot appears much larger in the pic than it actually is....6 MOA)

When I first saw that dot, I was like how big is that thing.

 

[KT007]

So much easier to zero-in your RD with laser bore sight ..
Very cheap at Amazon ..

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Laser bore sight is useful when mounting an optic where iron sights can't be used as a reference for initial adjustment. Otherwise, a laser bore sight accomplishes nothing more than what Oklahomabound posted in #2. The objective is to be close enough to be on paper when first arriving at the range instead of the moron who shows up with a new optic shooting air.

A while back I had the displeasure of a hunter setting up close to me while trying to zero a new scope on his 7mm mag. After about 15 minutes of the fillings rattling out of my teeth it was obvious he wasn't on paper. That's what ya want to avoid. I took him down to the Plinking range and told him to shoot at a particular rock on the dirt bank while I watched the rock and for the dirt splat. One shot... adjust about 10In right and 8in down. Next shot bounced the rock. He was on paper at that point.

With handguns, indoor ranges and paper target on wire runners its really no big deal because you can bring in the target close enough to be on paper no matter how far out of adjustment the optic might be. Still, if ya start out as Oklahomabound illustrated you'll be good to go.

 

[DungFu]

Laser bore sight is useful when mounting an optic where iron sights can't be used as a reference for initial adjustment. Otherwise, a laser bore sight accomplishes nothing more than what Oklahomabound posted in #2. The objective is to be close enough to be on paper when first arriving at the range instead of the moron who shows up with a new optic shooting air.

A while back I had the displeasure of a hunter setting up close to me while trying to zero a new scope on his 7mm mag. After about 15 minutes of the fillings rattling out of my teeth it was obvious he wasn't on paper. That's what ya want to avoid. I took him down to the Plinking range and told him to shoot at a particular rock on the dirt bank while I watched the rock and for the dirt splat. One shot... adjust about 10In right and 8in down. Next shot bounced the rock. He was on paper at that point.

With handguns, indoor ranges and paper target on wire runners its really no big deal because you can bring in the target close enough to be on paper no matter how far out of adjustment the optic might be. Still, if ya start out as Oklahomabound illustrated you'll be good to go.

I use the boresight mostly for dialing in optics on long guns as you said. I gave up on the cheap in-chamber brass types and bought this SITELITE : SL - 500 . Expensive but it is very precise and well built. There have been cases when I show up at the range and don't need to zero at all. It works just as well with pistols with an RDS. Unless they are very small with short barrels. In that case it's not easy to center it in the bore. Sticks out too far. I have the tool, so I figured why not use it for handguns.

I prefer to get my firearms dialed in at home so I can spend my range time shooting vs. fiddle around with optics. Especially indoors because the lighting often sucks. I calibrate handguns at 20 yards and long guns at 50. There's no science behind that it's just a personal preference.

 

[2sharp2]

For what it’s worth, I have the Crimson Trace grips on every pistol that has them aligned like the pic in post # 2.

 

[Dan03833]

I guess what I was getting at is it an absolute cowitness or 1/3 cowitness with the red dot as it comes from the factory

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Co-witness simply refers to the fixed sights being able to witness through the optic window.

Absolute means that the height of the fixed sights are physically in the middle of the optic window. Lower 1/3 means the fixed sights are in the lower 1/3 of the optic window.

I don't have a Mako in front of me but I'd say the sights are in the lower 1/3. Most handguns have pretty low fixed sights in relation to the optic window. Rick's picture above looks like the camera is getting the angle near correct which illustrates the fixed sights are in the lower 1/3 of the optic window.

All that said... forget about all of the above regarding your Mako. Before going to the range adjust your red dot as Oklahomabound illustrated. When at the range adjust to your distance preference.

 

[Series6]

I was skeptical about red dots but my eyes are having issues picking up and focusing on my front sight. Once sighted in I find I much prefer it. As far as application go with the postings above. These members are pointing you in the right direction

 

[DungFu]

Good thread.

Personally, I never saw the value in co-witness. It doesn't work for me. I also was cynical about red dots until I actually started using one. My eyesight is still good enough for irons and there are some pistols like my 92X that I prefer shooting with only the iron sights. An RDS adds bulk in concealment to an EDC but in my experience, a red dot can't be beat when it comes to rapidly sighting and reliably landing a round where it needs to go. Especially in a self-defense scenario when seconds matter. It took me a while to accept that.

I have heard others comment that co-witness is important because batteries can fail at the worst time. True, but if you are confronted with a threat and the battery in your RDS is dead, you simply point the muzzle in the correct direction and pull the trigger. Everybody should train for that scenario. Pointing vs. aiming is a legitimate method that you can and should train for. I would also contend that paying attention to things like changing batteries regularly eliminates the problem.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Co-witness fixed sights also provides the shooter a reference for quickly acquiring the dot when presenting a handgun (red dot on rifles is easy to acquire due to the stock/cheek rest).

At the club it's not unusual for me to hand my Ruger (red dot but no fixed sights) to someone curious about suppressors. After a couple seconds of moving the gun around unable to find the dot I'll get asked: "Is the red dot turned on?".

Of course practice presenting a gun helps speed acquiring the dot but in a high-stress situation I wouldn't be surprised if the dot is never seen.

Red dots are fantastic on my recreational handguns and self defense rifles. I don't have red dots on handguns for self defense.

Ear-to-ear grin fun.

 

[DungFu]

My EDC Hellcat was optics ready, but I bought it without the RDS. Amidst the surging popularity of red dots on pistols, I reluctantly got the red dot and put it on to give it a try. Honestly, I expected to find it disappointing and re-use it on a long gun. I was wrong. It's outstanding. I did have to get a new holster though.

I know what you are saying re: newbs cant find the dot (aka "Is this thing turned on?). I didn't struggle with that too much because after years of pistol shooting I am very disciplined about presentation, grip, stance, etc. That's all second nature for me now. But in the absence of that, especially for new gun owners, I understand the dot can be hard to find.

 

[Franklin]

The sights and the optic are two different sighting systems. Use ONE of them. Trying to use all three wastes time and effort. Further, what you see in the optic window is what you will hit, out to about 15 yards. Whether you see the dot or the dot is centered is irrelevant. Springfield's "Armory Life" recently ran an article about this. The writer tested the optic by centering the red dot at 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock and fired at the target. All four rounds hit the target, and the group really wasn't very large. Many pistols remove the rear sight for the red dot to be installed. I can't fault this idea.