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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Do you also carry a quality flashlight? And practice your shooting skills with it? I hope so, the sheep are counting on you!
 

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You're right. I should carry a quality flash light. I need a mag pouch that also carries a light.

Damnit, now I have to spend more money. This forum is breaking the bank. :)
 

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No. I used to, but it's never really dark around here. I used to be a Surefire guy, but these are my new favorites- bright as all get out, the strobe function is completely disorienting, and they are made in the USA.

Handheld Lights | INFORCE®

PS---if anyone ever wants a group buy on these, I can help.
 

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If my pants are on I have a flashlight, I may not have my wallet or keys but I have a flashlight. I own approximately 20 flashlights from the tiny 350 lumen light I carry in the watch pocket of my jeans to a 4000 lumen beast that will light up a field. Every vehicle I own has a minimum of 2 flashlights in it along with spare batteries, there's one on my night stand that sits next to a .45 and one in the drawer of the night stand with extra batteries. These are not incandescent lights they are led's, all my lights run on Li-ion (Lithium Ion) batteries. If you haven't figured it out yet I'm a flashlight freak.
 

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I keep one that will blind you in my pickup and leave it in there.
I have been known to leave essentials that go along with a edc at home..
But not for awhile...Hard lesson learned..
 

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I don't know if that was sarcasm or just my poor reading comprehension, Mike240. But know, I don't carry a flashlight. However, if I have my phone, I have a light. I just won't need it for any form of self defense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't know if that was sarcasm or just my poor reading comprehension, Mike240. But know, I don't carry a flashlight. However, if I have my phone, I have a light. I just won't need it for any form of self defense.
I don't know where you read sarcasm. None was meant. I guess it was more a reminder that I feel if carry a gun into and area of known darkness you should have a light and at least one flashlight technique you can shoot from. The sheep comment is that it only one prepared person in the crowd to save many. The sheep are obviously the many with their head up their butts. The prepared are the sheepdogs.

And maybe to stimluate some talk on techniques and chosen lights.
 

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Which to you use or prefer?

 

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I'm not sure how effective I would be shooting single handed, but I like the FBI technique because it gives the light independence, should I wish to illuminate something and not point a gun at it, and with the light above and behind the gun I should be able to see the sights more clearly than just my night sights. But that is an untried opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
He demonstrated several of those incorrectly. The Fuentes is very unstable after the first shot due to the gun bouncing off the tube.

The Harries is very old and made when everyone was still shooting Weaver. Still very popular and the most stable when done right. But very fatiguing too.

The so called Ayoob (for who I have no respect for) is actually the Chapman as far as I can tell what that guy was doing.

The FBI can be useful for open searches but keep the bezel in line with the bore and in front of your head so you don't illuminate your head.

I generally use what we call the reactionary. Fastest to get into from the draw. Second best for stability and follow up shots. More natural for isosoles shooters and less fatiguing.

Even though at work I have a Surefire x300 ultrA on the gun I still have a light in my support hand. Often I need to light up and see something that I should not be muzzling. The weapon light is for shooting not searching.

I flip from one technique to the other depending on what I Am doing. Pie ing left or right corners, casting light off walls or ceilings in to dark spots and searching
on irregular ground.
 

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Yes, Mike, it was the sheep comment that threw me. But, like I said, I didn't know what the intent was.
As for the flashlight, I can understand the desire to have one, I just disagree with entering a situation where one might be needed. As a cop, I did. As a civilian, looking only at my own self defense, I don't see the need to enter the dark area. If I do have to enter, I'm reasonably certain I will have adjusted to the low light before I proceed too far. I'm not arguing the point, just relying on the military premise that a flashlight is a target. If the bad guy is in the dark and fires at me, I'm not sticking around to exchange fire with him. If I believe he's in there, I'm not going in. I'll block his escape and call for the police.
Different theories on the same subject.
 
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Hey, just a big thank-you to all the posters on this forum for sharing your plethora of knowledge. I have a 250 lumen flashlight but I have no clue how to use it the most effectively with my sidearm. Usually I barge in with my opinion on many topics but for this one I have such limited knowledge I need to research. If the purpose of this forum is to educate, then we'll done. And the non patronizing mentality of this forum is it's greatest feature. Nobody likes to be talked down to.
 

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I have no training but have thought about the light being a target as well. What are your thoughts about being the target, Mike?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The light can obviously compromise your position as light is one of the five target indicators.

But being able to identify and successfully engage a threat outweighs it. As a general rule, though there are exceptions and pro/cons to every tactic, when outside I apply light search and scan for bad guys and points of cover. Turn light off and move quickly to new ground before turning the light on again. There are obvious times that the ground may be so irregular and the area so dark that you cannot safely move without lighting the way.

But unless there is a reason to move from good cover like you are paid to move towards the threat or chase it OR you have to in order to save a loved one, once you locate good cover there is no reason to leave it.
 

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flashlight?

I do have a flashlight "handy" and also a light on my bedside .45....Something that I've been trained to acknowledge is when the light comes on, "they" know where you are...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I do have a flashlight "handy" and also a light on my bedside .45....Something that I've been trained to acknowledge is when the light comes on, "they" know where you are...
Yes "they" do. But I am not speaking from a military perspective where everyone on the battlefield can be engaged regardless of their current actions. In the domestic world a justifiable threat must be identified before engaging it.

It used to be said years ago in LE training to assess a "target" for the reason to be justified in using deadly force against it. Which generally meant see if the pictorial target is pointing a gun at you or someone else. But that is not enough. People need to be trained to ID the person (or not be as to ID if they are a stranger versus someone you know ie. coworker) too. Too many cases of officer shooting other officers due to only looking for a weapon and not the "whole" picture as to who is holding the weapon. Same has occurred where family members have shot each other. Shooting at silhouettes and muzzle flashes can have poor consequences.

Cover is your friend. With protection comes comfort. And comfort affords extra time to make logical decisions. When surprised and or caught in the open we tend to panic or over react to perceptions.

Fortunately the "blue on blue" encounters we have experienced have involved poor shooters. Others have not been so lucky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I will add that when tritium sights came on the scene people were so thrilled. Now they could see their sights without the use of applying white light and engage with reasonable accuracy. True. But...

There are times when there is sufficient ambient light to see the threatening actions ie. the presentation of a gun. And the person is unknown to you (a threat) but there is insufficient light to see non tritium sights. In these cases it works.

But in most the application of white light is critical to make a proper decision before taking a life.

In today's world, some nut in a dark theatre starts shooting and there could be several good guys drawing guns to stop him from mass murder. I don't want to shoot at every muzzle flash.
 

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Yes "they" do. But I am not speaking from a military perspective where everyone on the battlefield can be engaged regardless of their current actions. In the domestic world a justifiable threat must be identified before engaging it.

It used to be said years ago in LE training to assess a "target" for the reason to be justified in using deadly force against it. Which generally meant see if the pictorial target is pointing a gun at you or someone else. But that is not enough. People need to be trained to ID the person (or not be as to ID if they are a stranger versus someone you know ie. coworker) too. Too many cases of officer shooting other officers due to only looking for a weapon and not the "whole" picture as to who is holding the weapon. Same has occurred where family members have shot each other. Shooting at silhouettes and muzzle flashes can have poor consequences.

Cover is your friend. With protection comes comfort. And comfort affords extra time to make logical decisions. When surprised and or caught in the open we tend to panic or over react to perceptions.

Fortunately the "blue on blue" encounters we have experienced have involved poor shooters. Others have not been so lucky.
I totally agree. The last thing I want to do is over react and shoot someone that shouldn't be shot. I don't practice draw/presentation very much because our range doesn't allow it, so home dry fire is all there is. I've made the conscious decision to seek cover, then draw if necessary. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
 

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I agree with the need to fully ID your target before making the decision to shoot.

A few months ago there was a very sad incident. Teenage stepdaughter was shot & killed by her stepfather. She was sneaking back into the house through a window & he thought she was an intruder. No criminal charges were filed, but he has to live with his actions the rest of his life. The media never mentioned if he had a flashlight at all.
 

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Question for those with proper training: If you are in your home, is there any reason not to turn on the lights if you suspect an intruder? Especially being familiar with the interior terrain, hopefully you have the element of surprise, and you are armed and ready to initiate/return fire if need be.
 
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