[Jimmo952]

I'll call made up bullshit on that 50 50 claim about S&W.

I spend many hours every week in an LGS that sells several S&W revolvers daily.
They are extremely reliable, even the new ones.
Colt has far far more warranty claims than Smith.

Older Smith revolvers are better fitted and finished for sure, but modern materials and machining haven't ignored the firearms industry like some want to pretend.

Your Kimber is an example of one.
I'm happy it runs for you. 👍

Search the forum here and you will see real time members who own Kimber revolvers telling you their situation. Not rumors or BS regurgitated by internet trolls who never owned one.

There are plenty stories of recent Smith revolvers having to be returned.

Recent "ultimate" J frames and those new Mountain guns. There are stories on the Smith forum of people being quoted many months to get their new revolvers fixed as the warrenty department is backed up.

My last three new Smith revolvers had to go back for work.

My last Smith semiauto, a Model 41 22lr was a mess.

Like many, I now look for older Smiths in good condition or expect the new gun is going to need some work to be what it's supposed to be.

Just as there are stories on this forum about problems with Kimber revolvers and 1911s, so there are stories about problems with new Smith revolvers on the Smith forum.

Its not that the Smith metallurgy or basic design is bad, its the haphazard way some of these guns are being assembled along with the lack of effective QA.

Kimber is not alone in being challenged in those areas.

 

[bad ninja]

There are plenty stories of recent Smith revolvers having to be returned.

Recent "ultimate" J frames and those new Mountain guns. There are stories on the Smith forum of people being quoted many months to get their new revolvers fixed as the warrenty department is backed up.

My last three new Smith revolvers had to go back for work.

My last Smith semiauto, a Model 41 22lr was a mess.

Like many, I now look for older Smiths in good condition or expect the new gun is going to need some work to be what it's supposed to be.

Just as there are stories on this forum about problems with Kimber revolvers and 1911s, so there are stories about problems with new Smith revolvers on the Smith forum.

Its not that the Smith metallurgy or basic design is bad, its the haphazard way some of these guns are being assembled along with the lack of effective QA.

Kimber is not alone in being challenged in those areas.

Plenty of stories about returns from every manufacturer on the internet.
Some are actually true.


No man made product will be without failures, and with mass production, it's a matter of percentages.
Neither of us know the real numbers, so it's an excercise in futility to speculate.

That said, do you realize how many revolvers Smith and Wesson sells?
My J frame .357 model 60 is slick and reliable as a hammer.

As far as Kimber goes, Kimber makes one of the best 1911s for the money, and has for many years.

Don't believe everything you read online.
Most Kimber haters can't post a pic of their Kimber because they have never owned one.

 

[Oklahomabound]

Go buy the Kimber Ultra of your choosing...

 

[Jimmo952]

Plenty of stories about returns from every manufacturer on the internet.
Some are actually true.


No man made product will be without failures, and with mass production, it's a matter of percentages.
Neither of us know the real numbers, so it's an excercise in futility to speculate.

That said, do you realize how many revolvers Smith and Wesson sells?
My J frame .357 model 60 is slick and reliable as a hammer.

As far as Kimber goes, Kimber makes one of the best 1911s for the money, and has for many years.

Don't believe everything you read online.
Most Kimber haters can't post a pic of their Kimber because they have never owned one.

Thats very interesting.

Is your Model 60 of recent production?

Is your background with Smith revolvers deeper than owning a Model 60 and hanging out in gunstores?

You somehow discount stories of flawed 1911s and new Smith revolvers but lap up stories of flawed Kimber revolvers like a kitten with milk.

 

[bad ninja]

Thats very interesting.

Is your Model 60 of recent production?

Is your background with Smith revolvers deeper than owning a Model 60 and hanging out in gunstores?

You somehow discount stories of flawed 1911s and new Smith revolvers but lap up stories of flawed Kimber revolvers like a kitten with milk.

Lol.
Well, I shoot a lot and spend A LOT of time with people that sell and shoot a lot of guns.

I also have experience owning a gun or two.
🤣

I'm not a fan boy of any company.
I calls them like I sees them.

Kimber makes a great 1911.
People that actually shoot them know they are excellent, and have great QC. That's a fact.

Now the Kimber revolvers, Solo, and most other non 1911 guns aren't as good in my opinion.

This isn't due to poor QC.
It's due to poor design, otherwise a quick trip home would fix them.

 

[Jimmo952]

Lol.
Well, I shoot a lot and spend A LOT of time with people that sell and shoot a lot of guns.

I also have experience owning a gun or two.
🤣

I'm not a fan boy of any company.
I calls them like I sees them.

Kimber makes a great 1911.
People that actually shoot them know they are excellent, and have great QC. That's a fact.

Now the Kimber revolvers, Solo, and most other non 1911 guns aren't as good in my opinion.

This isn't due to poor QC.
It's due to poor design, otherwise a quick trip home would fix them.

My opinion of Smith's recent revolvers is different than your's is all I'll say.

I won't comment on Solos, ... because I don't have experience with them.

I've shot Smiths competitively, carried them and hunted with them for decades now and know a fair bit about the platform.

So far my Kimber revolvers has been positive though I don't doubt others have had issues.

Maybe it's a design issue but I don't really think so.

It takes a well trained workforce to put together revolvers and that is where I think the issue is.

No matter how precisely machined parts are today, it still takes some talented hands to fit them and fix whatever isn't quite right.

That takes the right people with the right experience.

Smith is challenged by that today as is Colt. Kimber maybe very well be also. I'd be surprised if they weren't.

 

[SAE]

I going to make some popcorn, please continue...........

 

[bad ninja]

My opinion of Smith's recent revolvers is different than your's is all I'll say.

I won't comment on Solos, ... because I don't have experience with them.

I've shot Smiths competitively, carried them and hunted with them for decades now and know a fair bit about the platform.

So far my Kimber revolvers has been positive though I don't doubt others have had issues.

Maybe it's a design issue but I don't really think so.

It takes a well trained workforce to put together revolvers and that is where I think the issue is.

No matter how precisely machined parts are today, it still takes some talented hands to fit them and fix whatever isn't quite right.

That takes the right people with the right experience.

Smith is challenged by that today as is Colt. Kimber maybe very well be also. I'd be surprised if they weren't.

Experience is a key word.
Guess which company has more experience building revolvers?

I'll wholeheartedly agree craftsmanship as a whole isn't there anymore in the industry.
That's a societal issue.
Blue haired skinny jean clad young folks aren't going to be skilled machinists when they are busy eating tide pods and being confused about which bathroom to use.

Kimbers revolvers look as good as their 1911s, but they sure don't run like them.

 

[Jimmo952]

Experience is a key word.
Guess which company has more experience building revolvers?

I'll wholeheartedly agree craftsmanship as a whole isn't there anymore in the industry.
That's a societal issue.
Blue haired skinny jean clad young folks aren't going to be skilled machinists when they are busy eating tide pods and being confused about which bathroom to use.

Kimbers revolvers look as good as their 1911s, but they sure don't run like them.

Smith and Colt thought they could get away with having precisely manufactured parts assembled like Lego blocks into good revolvers.

They let the old experienced guys retire without really replacing them.

They thought they could get away with just about anybody assembling their revolvers.

It almost works. Sometimes it works but sometimes it don't. Most of the people with the deep knowledge are gone.

When it doesn't quite work there are fewer people around who can figure out why.

I would be surprised if Kimber wasn't following a similar manufacturing model with their revolvers.
It's the modern way. Works great with Glocks. Maybe not as great with revolvers.

 

[bad ninja]

Smith and Colt thought they could get away with having precisely manufactured parts assembled like Lego blocks into good revolvers.

They let the old experienced guys retire without really replacing them.

They thought they could get away with just about anybody assembling their revolvers.

It almost works. Sometimes it works but sometimes it don't. Most of the people with the deep knowledge are gone.

When it doesn't quite work there are fewer people around who can figure out why.

I would be surprised if Kimber wasn't following a similar manufacturing model with their revolvers.
It's the modern way. Works great with Glocks. Maybe not as great with revolvers.

They didn't fire the legacy gunsmiths.
They retired or died.

There are only a handful of real gunsmithing programs in the country.

How much do you think the guys assembling $700 revolvers make?

 

[bad ninja]

I going to make some popcorn, please continue...........

Hah.
You'll probably burn that too.
🤣

 

[Jimmo952]

They didn't fire the legacy gunsmiths.
They retired or died.

There are only a handful of real gunsmithing programs in the country.

How much do you think the guys assembling $700 revolvers make?

Yes. They retired or died, but nobody trained the next generation. They didn't think they needed them anymore. They were wrong.

For sure skilled labor costs more. I don't disagree.

You are making my point though. Thanks.

Pay minimum wage and you get what you get. It's not a design or metallurgy issue in most cases.

 

[bad ninja]

Yes. They retired or died, but nobody trained the next generation. They didn't think they needed them anymore. They were wrong.

For sure skilled labor costs more. I don't disagree.

You are making my point though. Thanks.

Pay minimum wage and you get what you get. It's not a design or metallurgy issue in most cases.

The next generation didn't show up for class.
They were busy getting degrees in gender studies, or learning to code.

Also, do you really think Smith (or any manufacturer) pays minimum wage to people assembling guns?

I personally won't buy a Kimber revolver, just based on the many many members here that have had problems.
Smith builds a better revolver.

 

[Jimmo952]

The next generation didn't show up for class.
They were busy getting degrees in gender studies, or learning to code.

Also, do you really think Smith (or any manufacturer) pays minimum wage to people assembling guns?

I personally won't buy a Kimber revolver, just based on the many many members here that have had problems.
Smith builds a better revolver.

Nah...I knew some of the top revolver guys at Smith back in the day because I shot their guns competitively.

It was no accident that a new generation wasn't brought along. It was a reasoned decision based on the belief that new manufacturing methods would make that unnecessary.

Didn't quite work out that way.

I don't really care if you'd buy a Kimber revolver.

Maybe you know more about 1911s? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

 

[bad ninja]

Nah...I knew some of the top revolver guys at Smith back in the day because I shot their guns competitively.

It was no accident that a new generation wasn't brought along. It was a reasoned decision based on the belief that new manufacturing methods would make that unnecessary.

Didn't quite work out that way.

I don't really care if you'd buy a Kimber revolver.

Maybe you know more about 1911s? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

I'm an old man and have been shooting for well over half a century. I put more rounds downrange every month than most small police departments. We all shoot a lot here. Big deal.

There is no conspiracy, and yes new manufacturing methods and materials are better.
That's why the average car lasts 300k miles these days. Look around you.
Metallurgy, material science and manufacturing are much better than they were even 20 short years ago.
You can always still pay for a Korth, Manurhin, Dan Wesson, Springfield TRP or some other hand fitted handgun, but you won't get one for $1000.
You'll pay over twice that.

I have some hand fitted guns. They are excellent.
But my $600 entry level Kimber will smoke a 75 year old hand fitted 1911 all day long. It's a better product.

 

[cnutco]

I purchased the K6S when it came out, but only shoot it at the range, and not many times to date.

I personally never plan to get a .38 caliber revolver when I can get a .357 and shoot .38 if desired. The xs extra small is appealing but would just carry one of my smaller pistols instead.

 

[rexandjr]

Smith and Colt thought they could get away with having precisely manufactured parts assembled like Lego blocks into good revolvers.

They let the old experienced guys retire without really replacing them.

They thought they could get away with just about anybody assembling their revolvers.

It almost works. Sometimes it works but sometimes it don't. Most of the people with the deep knowledge are gone.

When it doesn't quite work there are fewer people around who can figure out why.

I would be surprised if Kimber wasn't following a similar manufacturing model with their revolvers.
It's the modern way. Works great with Glocks. Maybe not as great with revolvers.

I viewed a youtube video where the presenter researched the personnel bios at Colt. A company over 150 yars old. He claimed that the "senior" gunsmith was with the comapny 10 years, his immediate subordinates about 5 or 6, and all the rest a year or two. If true that makes the point and is discouraging if industry wide.

 

[TexJoe]

A Medieval era projectile propulsion weapon wielded by Promagnum subhuman warriors called Deplorables who believed in superstitious concepts like a Supreme Being, charity, mercy, personal liberty, private property, self reliance, minding their own business, and rendering legitimate service to their freely chosen self government entity.

Well said good sir

 

[RevolverPimp]

I own a Kimber K6S (all steel version) and it is one of my favorite firearms to EDC and shoot at the range. I haven't had any problems with it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the K6xs based on my experience with the standard K6.

 

[TexJoe]

I own a Kimber K6S (all steel version) and it is one of my favorite firearms to EDC and shoot at the range. I haven't had any problems with it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the K6xs based on my experience with the standard K6.

2" or 3"?