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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I stopped by a local dealer today, just to see what he had. Having never been there before, the guy behind the counter was as new to me as I to him. I started out by asking if he had any used Browning HP's. Of course not. But he didn't criticize the gun by blurting out that it's a single action and nobody likes them. Yes, I have had that happen.
Then I asked if he carried the Kimber line. I immediately received a long dialogue about how the Kimber of today is not the Kimber of yesterday and that moving to the East coast really destroyed the company's quality, (must be the air). I was told how the Sig would out shoot the Kimber everyday and was ten times as reliable, etc.
I asked to see one of these miraculous firearms and he handed me an all steel 5 inch gun. I handled it and that asked if it wasn't a bit heavy for daily carry. I followed with a query regarding something comparable to my Ultra Carry II. He got into his safe and pulled out a Sig Ultra two tone. It's a good looking gun with similar features to my Ultra. I prefer the Ultra II barrel arrangement as the Sig uses a cut away in the upper barrel to facilitate the auto-loading process. I also did not like the lack of an ejection port relieve. I have had experience with .45's that lack that feature.
Other than a couple cosmetic issues, the guns are very similar. Weights, lengths carry capacity are all similar. However, the shop guy seemed to think the Kimber couldn't handle 7 rounds. I actually believe he thinks the Sig carries 7 in the mag. Feature for feature, the sig is very like the Ultra Carry II TLE. And very similar in suggested retail. In the end, I acknowledged the Sig is a good looking gun and that I like the two tone 3 inch 7 round design. But his quoted price was more than $150 dollars more than my regular dealers posted price for the LTE. My regular dealer carries the CDP II, very close in appearance to the sig, for about $75 more than he quoted the Sig. For that money, I'll take the better barrel lug design and the ejection port relief.
 

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If the dealer sells it, it's a wonderful thing. If he doesn't sell it, it's a piece of junk. Standard retail BS
 
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Kimber pistols were always made on the "east coast". Sometimes you will have more credibility by being quiet.....
 

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Kimber pistols were always made on the "east coast". Sometimes you will have more credibility by being quiet.....
I think they actually started in Oregon and were known as Kimber of Oregon.
I will have to look it up, but I thought I read that before..:confused:
 

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Mike240 is right about the pistols always being made on the east coast.

How Kimber, a name associated with high grade hunting rifles, came to be in the 1911 business requires a little history lesson. The story begins in Yonkers, N.Y., with a company called Jerico Precision which was founded in 1978 as a manufacturer of hand tools and a subcontractor for various defense industries. The name Jerico comes from founders Jerry Roman and the late Richard Brown, an acronym for "Jerry and Richard's Company."

Jerico needed two things: a market and somebody who knew about 1911's. The help they found turned out to be businessman Leslie Edelman, owner of a major firearms and accessory wholesale company called Nationwide Sports, and Chip McCormick who knows something about 1911s. At the time, Edelman was a minority shareholder of Kimber Of America and his plan was to connect Jerico's manufacturing capability with Kimber's established dealer network. The project began in the winter of 1994 and the prototypes of the "Kimber" pistol were shown at the 1995 SHOT Show.


Controversy swirled around the sample at the show, which were in fact made by Caspian Arms with the serial number and manufacturer's identity hidden under the grip panels.
Then in late 1996 Edelman purchased Jerico and changed the name to Kimber Manufacturing. In April 1997, Edelman closed Kimber's rifle making facility in Oregon and moved the entire operation to Yonkers.
 

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Right. The reason early kimber pistols were marked Oregon is because the FFL holder was still in Oregon.
 

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How Rude!!!

Sounds to me like that salesman needs some more product education!! You don't bad mouth products. You explain the features of a firearm and allow the customer to make the choice/decision for himself. The product will sell itself. Sales personnel should deal in facts, not opinions!!;);)

If a customer has done his own research on the type of firearm he is looking for, only a paperwork monkey is required, not a salesman. If the monkey is really talented, he can put the new firearm box in a nice bag for the customer. The bag, of course, is optional!!!:eek::eek::eek:
 

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Sounds to me like that salesman needs some more product education!! You don't bad mouth products. You explain the features of a firearm and allow the customer to make the choice/decision for himself. The product will sell itself. Sales personnel should deal in facts, not opinions!!;);)

If a customer has done his own research on the type of firearm he is looking for, only a paperwork monkey is required, not a salesman. If the monkey is really talented, he can put the new firearm box in a nice bag for the customer. The bag, of course, is optional!!!:eek::eek::eek:
Our sales staff at the lgs shop here in St Lou.
They don't monkey around when it comes to selling a firearm..
 

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I really like the guys at our LGS. Several of them are vets with deployment experience. They are smart enough to open the case, clear the weapon, hand it to the shopper, be quiet until asked a question. (that's the good part)
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I considered the experience another example of a lack of knowledge being better left unstated.
 
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Sometimes salesmen (or women) just have to share their brilliance. I had a tire salesman try to sell me a more expensive tire by asking me," How much do you value your family?" After I recovered from the shock I quietly(not) explained to him that he should never question a man about how much he values his family. And then I explained the same thing to his manager.And then I went to another tire store. My father told me to never miss an opportunity to shut-up. I have shared the same advice to my son.
 

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I expect a salesman to know the features and benefits of his wares. A good one will know his competition as well. If I knew everything I wanted and why I would go to walmart. Instead being a former salesman at one time, I want the salesperson to inform me. No need to bad mouth just explain benefits.
 

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I haven't seen too much product bashing in the gun market, I usually see it when I'm looking to buy a new car. Bashing another brand doesn't make yours any better. I really don't know if an HK or a Sig trumps a Kimber, they are all very well made guns. I love my HK 45USP Compact, and I carry my Sig P239, but there's something about the way a Kimber feels in your hand . . . .
 

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My experience is that the smaller shops with limited stock tend to bash what they don't stock. The bigger shops with larger inventory tend to point out personal likes and dislikes.
 
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My experience is that the smaller shops with limited stock tend to bash what they don't stock. The bigger shops with larger inventory tend to point out personal likes and dislikes.
I agree. The places I go tend to ask, "What are you looking for, a pistol or revolver". Then, "What caliber". Then they show what they have and give you the features and benefits of the guns they are presenting. If I ask a question they answer to the best of their ability and let me make the decision. If I ask for an opinion I get one, but only if I ask.
 

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Yeah...

Duke, you must not be from the South :)

Down here, everyone has an opinion. I can't tell you how many times the KID behind the counter looks at me like I am an alien when I say I don't like a Glock.

I tend to wait for the more experienced sales people to be free...

Nothing worse than the KID at the sports store who wants to tell you how great every gun is, having never once stood on a range.

Hey Spike, I can read the literature too...
 
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My mom was from Virginia, so I have that going for me. But the problem is most sales people don't listen. All they want to do is regurgitate what they think you want to hear or worse, what to tell you how smart they are. 99% aren't that smart. And it's not just gun sales it's everywhere. IMO
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Walkingman, I have no idea if either of those guns are better or worse then the Kimber either. I've never owned one. But, when a person asks, "Do carry the kimber line?" I, for one, did not want to hear how bad they were and that the brands he did carry were so much better. I'd say it's a safe bet this guy has never held a Kimber let alone experienced one. As said, he's just puking up stuff he's heard or may be read.
I used to be a dealer. My first question was: "What kind of gun are you interested in?" My next question was always predicated on the response to question one.
For what ever reason, many dealers and even more, supposed, experts writing articles and blogs have taken it upon themselves to bash the Kimber line. Not a particular gun, the entire line. But, I've seen this before. I can remember when being a Ruger fan meant being a very lonely person too.
 
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